Some questions and concerns about running WVO

[Snedly]

Hello all, I am in the planning stages right now and have a source now for veggie oil.

The thing that I keep coming back to is how bad will it be when I forget to purge after running WVO on a winter day? And believe me....I WILL forget. Will I have a total mess trying to warm the IP and associated parts to get fuel moving again so the engine will fire?

I would like to know how most folks warm and filter the WVO? I have read volumes on this but haven't really come up with a good way for me. First, I don't really want to run my electric bill up any higher than it already is by heating with resistant type electric heaters and no open fires to burn my garage down. I have all the parts and pieces now to make a loop from a drum through a large filter housing I found thrown away (industrial) and back to the drum using an electric pump *yea I know, more electric* I'll let this run for *some time*, how ever long it takes to filter the oil. I kinda think this will warm the oil with friction from the pump. Any comments on this?

Has anyone ever tried submerging the WVO filter right into the holding tank doing away with a coil around the filter? My old Ford tractor power steering filter is right in the oil reservoir. I'm planning on welding up an aluminum tank with previsions for this. Make since or bad idea?

What kind of problems can be caused by modifying the jacket water system?

Thanks for comments or suggestions (HELP). I'm trying to put all this together on a shoe string budget and hope to get it right the first time....yea, right.

[Asymtave]

Snedly,

I'm just getting my system together too so take it for what's it worth (not much!):

HJAlbert on this board had some trouble a while back with cold oil in his pump/injectors. Look around a little in this Forum - I think it's here. I believe his solution is to dump hot water on the forementioned components. He's in SC, not sure of your location.

The law of conservation of energy states that friction heat from running a pump or heat directly from resistive elements is the same. Add to the fact that the pump motor is only 50% efficient you're better off to heat with electric.

Having said that - solar can be a great way to go to get sufficient heating. Depending on your climate the oil can get down right hot. There are designs on the web. A 55 gal drum painted black is a great start. Even better, build a box big enough for your drums, insulate it, paint the interior and drums black and put a glass front on it (facing south) will get your oil plent hot in any climate.

Submerging your VO filter in your heated VO tank sounds good, but I think you'll have a long heat up time that way - meaning long changeover to veggie operation - depending on your climate. The directly heated filter allows you to switch over if your tank isn't 100% up to heat. In other words, the smaller volume heats faster. If you have your filter submerged in 15 gallons of cold oil it will take a LOOOONG time.

Not sure what you mean about your water jackets? Do you mean your vehicle's cooling system?

Eric

[Snedly]

Snedly,

The law of conservation of energy states that friction heat from running a pump or heat directly from resistive elements is the same. Add to the fact that the pump motor is only 50% efficient you're better off to heat with electric.

Well, I guess what I was getting at was only having one thing use power and a pump would serve two purposes, move the oil through a strainer and heat it at the same time....I don't know, it's probably a hair brained thing.
Having said that - solar can be a great way to go to get sufficient heating. Depending on your climate the oil can get down right hot. There are designs on the web. A 55 gal drum painted black is a great start. Even better, build a box big enough for your drums, insulate it, paint the interior and drums black and put a glass front on it (facing south) will get your oil plent hot in any climate.

I never even considered using the sun, good idea!

Submerging your VO filter in your heated VO tank sounds good, but I think you'll have a long heat up time that way - meaning long changeover to veggie operation - depending on your climate. The directly heated filter allows you to switch over if your tank isn't 100% up to heat. In other words, the smaller volume heats faster. If you have your filter submerged in 15 gallons of cold oil it will take a LOOOONG time.

You sold me on not doing this, I think it was going to be a pain anyway.

Not sure what you mean about your water jackets? Do you mean your vehicle's cooling system?

Yes, the engine's cooling system. What I really want to know is, is the heater hoses really the best place to T into for the hot water source?
Thanks Eric for getting me thinking about this a little deeper, I have no one but the wife to discuss this stuff with. I get a lot of blank stares.
Eric

[Asymtave]

As far as tapping into your coolant system you definitely want to be in a part of the circuit that isn't controlled by the vehicle's thermostat. That's why almost all choose to tap into the hoses going to the heater core. I have to sit down and study a diagram of my truck's coolant system to determine where I want to tap in but I have a pretty good idea.

The thermostat stays closed tp prevent water from going to the radiator until the engine is totally up to heat. So if you tap in to the radiator hoses, for example, you won't even start heating your oil until your engine is 100% up to heat - not good.

If you tap into your heater hoses you'll start heating oil immediately. Also, as a benefit (on older VW's anyway) the HOT/COLD control on the dash actually controls the coolant flow through the heater core. So - leave the control set to COLD during warm up to send all available warm/hot coolant to your veggie system. Of course, you'll be cold, but your veggie will be warm!

Eric

[GreaseBaron]

The term "Winter" is somewhat relative here. There is "winter" in Georgia and "winter" in Wisconsin. What type of "winter" are we talking about? If you are talking about "extremes of cold", then be forewarned that dealing with WVO in cold climates is a real pain in the BUTT. Yes you can make it work, but if you are a novice at this, expect to be VERY frustrated at times! If (or when) you get into trouble, a small propane cylinder with an infrared heater on it can help a lot if you need emergency heat. And put a sticker on your dash or steering wheel to remind you to FLUSH THE SYSTEM!! Personally I think people should be happy running WVO during more moderate temperatures untill you get to know what you are doing and are confident in your abilities.

As for filtering tricks. USE THE SUN!!
Millions of BTU's of free energy is all around you free for the taking! Every BTU of energy you can get for FREE will reduce your operating costs per mile. You can do basic calculations to determine how much "fuel" you will actually use in a year. You can gather your "fuel" practically anytime, but it is probably only necessary to filter it once a year!
As you gather oil, try to keep it in translucent containers so you can see how it settles. The crap goes to the bottom leaving you to pump off only the top portion into another larger storage container. This is a first stage "rough filter" and you can do it for most of the year if those containers are in the sun and get warmed up naturally. This first stage should be able to eliminate 95% of the crap out of your oil. And you havent wasted a nice filter bag to do it!

Now wait untill the height of summer when the temps go way up. If your oil is in the HOT sun, its going to go way up also. Now you can filter it through your precious filter bags and it will flow NICE! You should be able to filter your whole years supply down to fuel level in a day or two! Yeah its a smelly horrible rotten job and no one is going to be your friend for a couple days because you STINK like waste oil! But after its over, you will sleep REAL good at night knowing you have your whole years supply stashed away while your "friends" all piss and moan about high gas prices!!

[Snedly]

Thanks all for the help and advice, I need all I can get. I have been a mechanic all my life so some of this stuff is familiar and a lot of it isn't. My aim is to not help line pockets of the already filthy rich. (had to change that last statement to a more politically correct one).

GreaseBaron, I assume by "off the grid" you mean making your own energy in one way or another. I salute you for being brave enough to go the distance with alternative fuels. Very comendable. I know several folks who get free natural gas from well(s) on there farm. How great would that be!

[GreaseBaron]

Yes I have been making my own energy for many years.
I have both diesel and propane (for extreme cold) generators that make me quite independent of the almighty GRID!
And no, its not a question of "bravery", I am just one stubborn hermit that refuses to be "controlled" by criminal United States corporate conglomerates such as electrical and oil companies!

Enough is ENOUGH!

Every man has to individually choose when to break FREE of the energy MAFIA that runs rampant in the US and extorts your hard earned wages on a daily basis.

It CAN be DONE!!

There are many like me and the number is growing!!
WE ARE BAD FOR BUSINESS!!
Embrace the philosophy of NON-CONSUMERISM!!

FREE YOURSELF!!!

[Fatmobile]

Looking forward to seeing you at the energy fair GreaseBaron.
Have we met there in previous years because I don't recognise you by that name.

[GreaseBaron]

Fatmobile, the last time I was a vendor at the MREA fair was the year of "the torrential downpours" where we got a record amount of rain in just a few hours time. Everything was a MESS and I actually had a river running directly through my "expensive" vendor spot under one of the tents. After everything cleared up and the crowds poured in I was "stuck" at my spot talking with people for 2 solid days with hardly a break. So I didnt actually get out too much that year. I was working under the GreaseBuddy brand name at the time and was selling units to fit to the exhaust pipes of generators to enable them to run on waste vegetable oil. It is possible we met briefly if you "made the rounds".

Alas.. this year I have to miss the fair so we wont have a chance to hook up (and go see the Wizard! Each year I have to choose between the energy fair and a very large "gasser" car show in St Ignance Michigan which is always held on the same weekend. Next year I will be back at the fair and will bring my '82 Caddy!!