Old guy Old Rabbit---both Happy.

[surfcam]

Hagar please correct me if I'm wrong but the pump pressure that your trying to measure is the vane pump discharge or cam pump suction which is the same thing. Most of the pump is under this pressure other than near the very front and very back. This pressure controls timing to a point so is critical for power and economy. I've been exploring options on where to take pressure readings also. I think the best option would be to take a cover or bolt out and drill and tap it. I'm speculating hear that Bosh might have a calibration port on both sides. It looks like a plug that won't fit a socket. Maybe their trying to keep the fittlers out. There's also the outlet bolt. You might be able to drill and tap through the top to get on the other side of the orifice but there might be a restrictor gage on the inside that would give you bad readings. I personally don't like this option.

4BTA 3.9 Cummins Stepvan
86TD Golf
91TD Jetta

[Bruce]

Quote:Here is what I learned about the dynamic timing system. ----the timing piston operates on differential pressure between main gallery in pump and inlet banjo. ----The advance is most important at maximum fuel injection ( say maximum power).

I'm not sure your add on mechanical pump idea will work if it is connected at the inlet banjo because it will be charging the whole system. According to Hagars quote you have to have a pressure differential across the timing advance piston. How about if you connect it after the vane pump somehow.

[surfcam]

I think Andrews cam driven pump so is a better option that what I had in mind. This would make it dynamic over the hole rpm range. The way I would run it is with by-pass line with a metering valve. With a pressure gage up stream of the pump one could control the suction pressure to the vane pump. My thinking is that 3 psi compared to the normal 1 or 2 psi negative would put a lot of IP's on spec. over the whole rpm range. The next problem is to figure out if you are running to spec. or maybe even the magic 1to 2 degrees advance for the super economy. Please try to humor me I'm trying to win the economy challenge against the TDI's. This is big bragging rights at Windy Point. You might even hear it state side.

4BTA 3.9 Cummins Stepvan
86TD Golf
91TD Jetta

[hagar]

The woods and them thar hills are crawling with snake-oil peddlers.---all around Bunny Bondos lair on highway 101.

They promise you all kinds of savings on fuel --- --crazy world. .---I am analyzing a bunch of MPG-CAPS ---FFI. -- FREEDOM ?. My bovine excrement bell is ringing.

NO hagar did NOT pay for the pills.--- IMHO the Internet is a cesspool of FRAUD.

ParoWax is NOT oil of snakes --OK OK maybe little bit. --since it is of biomass --origin.

Have NO fear I do not sell anything. --I am retired and I play with Rabbits all day.-----today 21 July 2006 ---I do a lot of driving Miss.Bondo.---pure FUN.

hagar.

PS : Sigrid had on her mini bikini ---I have seen bigger postage stamps. ---NOT a bad looking figure IMHO. ----She is the one with the Passat (gasser).-----I smile a lot when driving by the corner filling station.

[hagar]

Us flyboys have a saying ---like a "Furball" --- (dogfight) ---us Dieselguys ---have a saying the whole ball of "WAX" --EH ?.

So you did join the WAX gang ---and nothing changed ? -------very unlikely on an OLD --Rabbit.--so I shall deal with you later.

BUT for those of you (like me) -- who --was smiling all the way home ?--EH. ----what to do next. ?---we now know that we have an injection problem.

Like I promised I shall explain what I did. ---and still do. ----it is all part of "Hillbilly TUNING"----

Bring me your tired your sick --your smoking Rabbits ----can we do something ? --no problems here.

I do things in a very orderly way --and I love Boolean Logic. ---so lets get started.

The PUMP is worn. --ok ?----Look up the pump gang.----Andrew in Flagstaff is a senior member --so am I ---and LOREN down in the Washington state Apple sauce. ---Many members have home pages --and all the goodies can be found there. --examples ? OK. The Swede --really smart Svensker. --he writes about Vanagons. Then there is " Charlie Brown" -----Roger Brown ? and many more.

Yes I hagar talks with an accent --like Viktor Borge -- yes I flunked English 101. ---BUT I did not flunk listening 101 ---or reading without an accent ---and you may take that to the bank.

hagar.

PS : and I like (LOVE?) diesels and Rabbits.

[coues7]

Hagar,

Well I've run the wax for a week and a half now.....my little non-rusty, non-bondo bunny is running alot quiter....but I don't see any performance differences. So I'm ready and listening to your next recommendation.

You still haven't answered our question about where the pressure reading comes from??? Please just answer that single question so I can get taking some reading and listen for your instructions on what we should do next!

ALSO WHAT OTHER WEBSITE ARE YOU REFERING TO???

[hagar]

Where do I measure internal pump pressure ? --look at page 25 ---Andrew in Flagstaff AZ posted a picture. ---the bottom banjo ----simple and effective.

Remember that a forum like this is expensive to keep operating --EH ? SO ? it is paid for by sellers like Jack and Dan's --they sell parts --and advertise --etc. .--- IMHO that is fair and proper.

Those two forums are my choice. ---- because the sellers are in competition --I can not post the links.

You get valuable free help ? don't you ? ---I did and I will NEVER complain.

hagar.

[Fatmobile]

coues7, I'm wondering if you have read this whole thread or if you have just come in toward the end. The questions you are ASKING have already been answered.
Did you see the picture libbybapa showed, of his port for measuring internal pump pressure?
Did you look at any of hagars pictures?

You still haven't answered our question about where the pressure reading comes from???

WHERE ARE WE TAKING THE READING FROM??????

hagar said:

Pressure is ---PSIG from main gallery.

----the timing piston operates on differential pressure between main gallery in pump and inlet banjo

There has been pages (in this post) discussing internal pressure and how it effects timing. how to measure it and what the measurements should be.
I don't know how many different ways he can say it. It's the pressure inside the pump, take a look at the pictures (like suggested) and see what they use to measure it.
I don't mean to be an ass or discourage you from asking questions but maybe take some time to re-read this topic from the beginning so hagar doesn't have to keep repeating himself.

[hagar]

A footnote about WAX. : Never figured that I was going to WAX my car engines on the INSIDE --
Mother hand me the WAX.

hagar.

[hagar]

Fatmobile ---thank you ---I did need some help there. ----BUT --I do like to help beginners.---and I am very careful not to make them feel bad .----FUN is where it is at.

In Danmark English was compulsory in public schools. --I still se the first page in my minds eye. --(the textbook) --there was a picture of a RABBIT ----and the text said " See me hop and see me run , it is FUN FUN FUN.".

hagar.

PS : I flunked English that was about 1942 ----.

[coues7]

Fatmobile and Hagar,

I've followed this post from it's begginings. I've read and re-read every page on this post. The pictures I've seen them. If you ask me the picture on page 25 shows the 2 banjo's stacked but the gauge looks like it's just setting there.....as a matter of fact it looks as if it's not even hooked up.

Sorry for the blunt and straight forward requests for specific answers.....this thread is just somewhat hard to follow based on the language....NO OFFENSE HAGAR.

I'm not intermitently just coming in and posting dumb questions. So what if the 2 banjo's are stacked....that doesn't mean that is where the reading is being taken. I'm not offended by your comments I'm just defending my ground.

SO LET'S PUT THIS BEHIND US AND GET ON WITH THE KNOWLEDGE SHARING.

So now that we can take an internal pressure reading....what do with do with that reading?

Thanks

[hagar]

" The GRAIL ?" --Andrew in Flagstaff ---asked --" where do I find it ? " ----kiddo sunny boy ---you found it.

I followed you for years ---fooling around with VW diesels. ----did I hagar drink fuel from the Grail ? I sure did.

"Holy" ? I used a bit of literary license.-----that is part of the FUN. --- I forget whether Rudolf Diesel was a Churchgoing Christian or not.. I think he fell overboard.---and drowned.

I call the 107A pump ---the holy grail. ----that is where everlasting "SMILEAGE" is to be found.

That pump is , incredibly complex. -------do I agree that to really control a diesel , we need a ECU ?---YES. Will a ECU work on a VW whirlchamber engine ? ---YES. --- Direct or Indirect injection ---has nothing to do with ECU or no ECU.

I am staying with the 107A ---NO ECU.

hagar.

[Fatmobile]

So now that we can take an internal pressure reading....what do with do with that reading?

We compare the readings to the numbers given earlier in this post, to see if the internal pressure is up to spec at a given RPM.

[hagar]

Lets talk about the " GRAIL " and " Hillbilly TUNING " for a bit.--OK ? .

The grail (da pump).: A lot of different pumps will work on a Rabbit --if we
tune. --from Audi or Volvo cars and so on. --a 107A pump will work just fine on a 1.6L
NA Rabbit ---- how would you get numbers for " TIMING " a combo like that ? EH
?.---107A is a 1.5L NA pump.

If you are really sharp on Boolean Algebra ? I envy you ----BUT I am good on Boolean
Logic.---it works for me every day.------hillbilly tuning is anything BUT Billy. It is a
misnomer --but it sounds real good to me.--. so lets TEST the pump first . ---then do the
TUNING.
This posting is a SAGA about hagar and his Rabbits. --how I do it etc. --IMHO follow
these simple steps ---and soon you will get " SMILEAGE ".----for very little money.

Step # 1. : clean the pump --inside and out.

hagar.

PS : even a Rolex oyster has to be cleaned --to get old lube and debris out.

[hagar]

I have been doing " BLOTTER " testing of liquids for more than 20 years ---most important the oil in the sump.
SO ? when I buy a used diesel --first thing I do is take a blotter test.-----ALL Rabbits and GM --V8 diesels ---were " TOBYS BUTT " -----If your rabbit is a Tobys butt ? she needs TLC.
Bunny Bondo has the cleanest , lube of the many Rabbits I tested. ----next to NO soot.---see hagars pictures.

Some day your Rabbits oil may look like that EH ? ---then you found the " Grail ".

hagar.

PS : Yes blotter testing is a very important part of hillbilly tuning.