My oil leak between head and block at cylinders 2 and 3 started using coolant, started harder-eventually not at all. I'm going to assume failed headgasket finally-car sat for 13 years and most lines/seals have been replaced by now.
Newbie at cars and especially diesels, but I've been learning putting this on the road. I've replaced timing belt, "hillbilly tuned", replaced the fuel lines, replaced most of the brake system, replaced the starter, got the blower motor working again, and taken off the IP to get it resealed(OK, this I sent out, but it worked when I put it back on.)
Since I have to take the head off and make sure it hasn't warped, replace the gasket and headbolts anyway, How tough is it for a beginner to do rings? How long it takes and other recommendations are welcome.
Link to the step by step I saw here at one time would be great info also.
"To the man with only a hammer in his toolbox, everything looks like a nail."
To do the rings, you need to remove the pistons from the engine. That requires removing the bottom end of the motor. Unless your cylinder walls happen to have really nice cross hatching hone work to them just replacing the rings with new one's isn't going to solve anything, and will end up costing you the time to take it apart all over again. The new rings will not break in properly without proper cylinder wall preparation. The catch here is in order to do it right the first time, you need to replace all that is worn or should be replaced when you take the engine apart, unless you want to do it twice if things go that way. So, once you take it apart and if you find out that it needs more work than you want to do or are willing to pay, to simply put it back together with the old parts isn't a wise idea and will probably result in a worse running condition than when you took it apart. That's the catch 22. If you haven't done the compression test on the cylinders to see which one's are low, you should do that beforehand so you know where you started.
Everybody else lists their cars here - but not me.
Reader's Digest of how I re-ring with the engine in the car:
- pull the head, send it to the shop to be re-worked as required
- pull the oil pan
- set the engine at TDC and 180 degrees from TDC and measure how far the pistons protrude so you know what head gasket to order
- unbolt the connecting rods and then push the pistons up and out thru where the head used to be... may need to de-ridge the cylinders
- measure the cylinders for wear... if OK proceed. If not OK the engine must be rebored... out comes the whole thing and we're doing a full rebuild
- assuming the cylinders are OK, inspect the pistons for damage, remove the old rings
- order new rings, head gasket, head bolts, rod bolts, rod bearings, main bearings, coolant, 2 oil filters, enough oil for two changes, pistons if required ($$$ lets hope not), valve cover, intake, exhaust, etc gaskets for the head, new crank bolt, heat shields
- using a cylinder hone lightly deglaze the cylinders with a 45 degree cross hatch pattern. Take off as little material as possible
- pull the main bearing shells and the main bearings themselves
- using several cans of brake cleaner and compressed air thoroughly wash down the cylinder walls and crank. Be super anal... don't want any grit in your rebuilt engine, and we are really cheating by not pulling the engine in the first place.. need to appease the VW gods with cleanliness
- lube and install new main bearings
- lube and install new rings on pistons
- lube and install pistons into cylinders
- lube and install new rod bearings
- install head gasket and head
- add oil and coolant
- find the "breaking in the new engine" thread here and carry on
Other (optional) things I *always* do at re-ring time:
- new water pump
- new thermostat... tested in boiling water,
- new thermostat housing if plastic
- new belts all around, including timing (hence the crank bolt above) and tensioner
- check block heater for signs of leakage... so much easier to replace with the head off
- pop test the injectors... renew as required
- check the IM shaft bearings, renew the IM shaft seal
As I said above:
(a) Readers Digest version... probably forgot some things and others will helpfully jump in and remind me
(b) this is what I do... others may do it different, and others will tell you not to re-ring with the engine in the car period. They probably have a point.
Vince
Vince
Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
2001 silver TDI Jetta Malone Stage 1.5 , 2001 blue TDI Jetta SBIII 216s Malone Stage 3
1970 Bay Window bus
Gone but not forgotten: 1969/1971 Beetles, 1969/1974 Westies, 1979 Rabbit, 1986 TD Jetta, 1992 gas Jetta, 1994 TD Jetta
Starting with the premise "If it Ain't broke don't mess with it"...
Why are you considering a ring job.... removing a head is really an easy affair, so I wouldn't re-ring just cause the head is off...
What are your compression numbers..!! Are you burning Oil..??
My two experiences with doing ring jobs is that my compression was shot after 50K miles... Honing takes a coupla thousandths off your cylinder walls which isn't good....
Time and money may be better spent rebuilding injectors...
Only reason I thought about a re-ring was I would have the head off, trying to figure if it would be worth doing. Car ran well before, not really much blow-by or oil burning.
Don't think I've got the space to remove the engine right now anyway, and I like the "if it ain't broke don't fix it" theory. Will stick with the head and gasket repair plan.
I know Jack has some guide to the head gasket job on site, if there is a detailed one here that link would be appreciated.
"To the man with only a hammer in his toolbox, everything looks like a nail."
I guess I would suggest that when you replace the head gasket, use this time as a fact finding mission to see what the cylinder walls look like. If there is a fairly substantial ridge at the top of the cylinders, you can assume that a rebuild is somehwhere in the future. If the cylinder walls look good without much wear, then you may get many, many more miles out of it.
Everybody else lists their cars here - but not me.
Yup, re-ringing, even with the engine in the car, is a big job as you can see... kinda my point of the big list above. With the head off you have a great opportunity to examine the cylinder walls, do some measuring, pull a piston or two and measure the ring gaps.
Then, if it looks like you have wear, you can intelligently decide to re-ring.
Vince
Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
2001 silver TDI Jetta Malone Stage 1.5 , 2001 blue TDI Jetta SBIII 216s Malone Stage 3
1970 Bay Window bus
Gone but not forgotten: 1969/1971 Beetles, 1969/1974 Westies, 1979 Rabbit, 1986 TD Jetta, 1992 gas Jetta, 1994 TD Jetta
My #1 preference is still to do a compression check if you are considering a re-ring... and even then with low numbers I'd give it some thought.. Right now I'm running an engine with numbers like 280/400/400/250 these are not great numbers and the car burns a quart of oil every other fill-up... But it starts good, accelerates great and gets 50mpg,,,,
Pulling a piston or two, remove rings and doing end gap checks,,, no matter what you find if you bust a ring doing this you will not be a happy camper.....
Think of a compression check as being non-invasive surgery!!!!
Richard
To answer your questions first --- Ringjob ? Apple Pie a la mode. --for a red hot DIY type like you. --BUT do NOT do it just yet--wait.
You mentioned the MAGIC password "hillbilly-TUNED" ---that got OLD hagar out of sickbay heading for the keyboard.
Remember I am NO mechanic and I do NOT tell DIY's what to do ---only what hagar does.
and here it is : Head off ?----OK so far. then I inspect each cylinder bore for damage.-----follow ? then I level all four pistons ---hagar is fuzzy ---exactly same height and with the block level,
I do NOT scrape top of pistons at this time ---Then I fill each cylinder with exactle 1 inch of oil--and cover block with my best white "T" shirt. We are looking for --UNEVEN--leak-by.Indicating a broken ring --stuck ring's --and so on. IF the level is --say .75 inch and EVEN --next day --she is A ok.
I have NEVER seen a bore on a Rabbit that showed damage or wear..A small ridge is normal,
If I need to remove ridge or HONE cylinders---to deglaze --I pour quarter inch of ParoWax on top of pistons --at BDC---to catch honing and ridge reaming junc. Works for hagar so ? maybe it will work for you ? --EH ?
hagar.
