heating oil for fuel?

[scottmartin49]

I've got 200+ gallons of old furnace oil that's not being used. Has anyone run the same in their vw? I've used some of it to power an old caterpillar dozer and it seemed to like it BETTER than pump diesel. Both are prechamber type diesels.......

[82vdub]

You can use it in your diesel. It probably doesn't have a high cetane number or the additives like regular auto fuel does, but it should work in your car. Don't tell anyone you're doing this, Uncle Sam will want their .40 a gallon road taxes on this plus probably want to ding you with a penalty. OUr house is heated with a 55 year old fuel oil furnace. None of that fuel oil has made it to my diesels fuel tank.....

[Vdub-bub]

In Canada, heating fuel is or was what I knew as winter diesel (has a lower cloud point) and it doesn't gel until colder temps. Not sure what is added or done to it to change the cloud point. I'd say go ahead and use it as long as it's clean and doesn't have water in it.

[scottmartin49]

Thanks guys. Around here "winter diesel" is straight pump diesel cut 50/50 with kero. No power, more expensive; but it won't gel when we get down to -20f or so. I figure I'll save the fuel oil for warmer weather, it does start to look pretty thick when it's cold....

As for the tax issue; "YOU HEARD NOTHING...NOOTHING... "

[82vdub]

I probably should have added to my original post that if it's old and brown, you may want to mix it with new diesel fuel if you use it. Could gum up your injectors etc if it's old.

The recept for the fuel oil delivered to my house reads: #2 red dyed diesel fuel" Last conversation I had with my fuel delivery guy said that I'm getting 15ppm ULSD fuel for my fuel oil (thought I was getting the real 2000PPM fuel oil that's still made and sold). Is the fuel you have #1 or #2 fuel oil? The tanks for my house are inside the garage (great if there's a fire!) and so I never get the #1 fuel oil. That has less lubrication properties than #2.

[surfcam]

diesel (has a lower cloud point) Not sure what is added or done to it to change the cloud point.

I believe they blend the C-20's (wax) out of winter diesel. Winter diesel is mostly C-15 and C-16. These are abbreviations for the long formulas. Pen thane, hex thane or gasoline is C-5 and C-6.

[scottmartin49]

There seems to be a lot of knowledge about fuel here (and I may be wrong) but what I have is what I think of as old style heating/furnace oil. It's thick and red and was only used with indoor tanks and it carries a lot more heat than any kero or pump diesel does nowadays.

[82vdub]

If it's thick, are you sure it's #2 fuel oil and still good? My #2 fuel oil and diesel fuel has had, to the best of my ability, the same thickness (viscosity) and has not changed, that I can tell, from the earliy 90's until today.

[Pu241]

There seems to be a lot of knowledge about fuel here (and I may be wrong) but what I have is what I think of as old style heating/furnace oil. It's thick and red and was only used with indoor tanks and it carries a lot more heat than any kero or pump diesel does nowadays.

OK, something I can contribute!
NY and other Northeastern states permit/require that home heating oil or #2 fuel oil to have upto 3% waste crankcase oil.
This will definitely change the color(still red but darker), but wouldn't think it would change the viscosity noticably.

Gasoline, at least here in the US, don't know about Canada, is composed of a distribution of C4 to C10/12 molecules in various structures.
Gasoline has a large fraction of cyclic compounds and branched molecules which resist detonation.
Whereas diesel is composed of a distribution of heavier C12 to C22/24 molecules, primarily straight chained molecules.
Which are prefered in compression ignition engines.

In an emergency you can easily use #2 fuel oil in a diesel engine.
But I'd get a 1 micron sock filter, about $4 plus shipping in McMaster Carr catelog.
And filter all of it through this filter, if it clean oil you will beable to filter a large number of gallons through this.
If you suspect it dirty they also sell 100,50, 25, 10 and 5 micron sock filters.
Nest them and filter away!
Of course this is only for emergencies (to be defined as you see fit)

[82vdub]

PU241 - interesting. Other than reduce the amount of waste oil that a company has to deal with, what benefits, if any, are there with adding the waste oil to the fuel oil? I have two 275 gallon tanks in my garage for home heating. If I assume they are full at 250 gallons, at a 3% concentration, I could filter and use 7.5 gallons of waste oil in the fuel oil. I don't know if this is really wise in my case (since brake, transmission, power steering, and engine oil goes into my waste containers), but something to consider since it would add lubrication to the fuel oil.

Speaking of filtering, I run both oil and fuel filters made by Frantz Corp http://www.wefilterit.com/ It has been on my 82 since new and my father has used them on virtually every car he's had since 1969. Anyone else use these filters?

[Greenmachine]

Speaking of filtering, I run both oil and fuel filters made by Frantz Corp http://www.wefilterit.com/ It has been on my 82 since new and my father has used them on virtually every car he's had since 1969. Anyone else use these filters?

Not yet, but thanks for posting that. I dig their mission statement and they're made in the USA.

[Pu241]

PU241 - interesting. Other than reduce the amount of waste oil that a company has to deal with, what benefits, if any, are there with adding the waste oil to the fuel oil?

No just think they used this as a means of disposing of the crankcase oil.

I have two 275 gallon tanks in my garage for home heating. If I assume they are full at 250 gallons, at a 3% concentration, I could filter and use 7.5 gallons of waste oil in the fuel oil.

You have hit on the key part of the waste oil in fuel oil problem.
The waste oil is not filtered except in a crude way and unintentionally.
For this application the filter on your oil tanks gets most of it, but isn't anywhere near 1 micron filter.
Also, an oil fired furnace operates, for all intensive purposes at ambiant pressure, so the by products of combustion are different from compression ignition engines.

Filtered to a high degree, I suspect you could raise the percent age of waste oil to 10% without much issue.
Above that and you'll have to see how your pump is handling the increase in viscocity of the fuel.
Per Fatmobile I think a vacuum gauge might be a good tool to determine this!
Just like WVO systems the oil/fuel blend could be heated to lower the viscocity and raise the percentage of oil used.
BTW, I have an oil furnace too with 2x275 gallon tanks inside ajoining my garage.
Just need do some plumbing to make things more convienent.

I don't know if this is really wise in my case (since brake, transmission, power steering, and engine oil goes into my waste containers), but something to consider since it would add lubrication to the fuel oil.

I don't really think lubrication is an issue with fuel oil furnace pumps.
Realistically, how much of the "waste oil" is actually something other than crankcase oil?
The composition of the hydraulic fluids (brake, ATX, steering, etc) have a high mineral oil content, so whatever percentage of non-oil content is low. The exception being silicon brake fluid (Dot 5), this you really want to exclude!
Say your waste oil content has 10% hydraulic fluids of all types, and that the fluid themselves are, for the sake of a putting a number to the problem, 50% non-oil (high in my opinion).
Then at even 10% usage, your non-oil content in 500 gallons is 2.5 gals more or less.
The other thing is, if this worrys you, can you have your source separate the waste crankcase oil from the hydraulic oils?

Yeah, I've been working on this for a while!
Remenber the original "energy crisis"?

[82vdub]

Realistically, how much of the "waste oil" is actually something other than crankcase oil?

I did mention that it probably wasn't wise in my case because I know what I dump into my waste oil containers. Basically, everything goes in it that's an oily substance, or caught in the containers that I use to catch waste. That's brake cleaner, all vehicle oily fluids, some antifreeze, etc. You name it. If I was to use any waste oil in my fuel oil furnace, I would want to make sure it's engine oil only used, and I would want to prefilter it before it gets to my tank. I don't want to ruin my old furnace, it takes 15 minutes a year to tune it up and it's good for another season.

PU241, are you worried or have you thought of what the ULSD fuel is going to do with the seals in your fuel oil pump? I am and would like to know who, or how, can rebuild these pumps to replace the seals if they start to leak. I doubt my 55 year old seals are up to the task for the new style fuel.

On the Frantz filters, my father has used these on his cars for almost 40 years and changed his oil only once a year, just as a precaution no matter how many miles the oil has on it in that year. I like having them on the car as a simple filter change will tell me what junk is in the fuel (and there is a lot coming out of the ground tanks at stations!) and any specs of metal or anything in my oil.