timing belt rubbing after ip install q's???

purvisgs · Post by **purvisgs** » Fri Jan 18, 2008 6:05 pm

I replaced the IP in my 1.6td engine recently and have had a squeal coming from what I now know is the timing belt in the area of the intermediate shaft pulley.

I first removed both accessory belts so these are not to blame. The tensioner (and tbelt) are new, and thanks to a borrowed stethoscope, I have traced the sound to the area directly around or below the intermediate shaft pulley, therefore I don't suspect the tensioner... It is hard so see anything actually rubbing or find the "exact" area causing the noise, but it is definatley caused by the tbelt rubbing somehow... both tbelt covers are off...
engine was running fine (no squeak) before repairs, so I don't suspect the ishaft pulley its self to be bent... tbelt tension is correct, rotating engine over by hand reveals slight sound from lower belt area... no unexpected resistance.

it seems like the tbelt is riding too close to the engine , this is most evident where the tbelt is just a little bit off the inside edge of the pulley/ sprocket on the top of the ip pulley...

where it seems to be rubbing is below on the inside (towards engine) edge of the i-shaft pulley "lip",

I don't currently have timing tools, so I am reluctant to remove tbelt until I can borrow them again...

questions:

-could the ip pulley not be all the way set or the pin be restricted in some way to keep the ip pulley from lining up with the rest of the pulleys?

-is it possible that I missed some spacers/ washers on the ip install that would affect tbelt alignment?

-is it possible that tensioner is on "backwards" or missing a spacer/ washer/ etc?

-if the tbelt is actually too tight (doesn't seem the case to me, I have done tbelts on 1.6d before) could this be causing these symptoms?

(only pulleys that I removed were tensioner and ip), so I don't suspect anything else, but is there anything else that you would check?

anything else to look for?

any advice very greatly appreciated!

Thank You!

libbybapa · Post by **libbybapa** » Fri Jan 18, 2008 8:40 pm

I suspect that the injection pump bracket needs to be tweaked a bit in order to align the IP pulley slightly differently in order to allow the belt to track correctly. Given your description it sounds like the pulley side of the pump needs to go down lightly or the lines side up slightly. The belt should track in the middle of the pulley. You can test the tracking prior to firing up the engine by rotating the engine by hand through a few revolutions.

Andrew

surfcam · Post by **surfcam** » Fri Jan 18, 2008 8:53 pm

Use a 12" ruler or something similar to make sure the IP pulley is parelell with the cam pulley. You have to check vertical and horizontal.

purvisgs · Post by **purvisgs** » Sat Jan 19, 2008 9:19 pm

just a quick update:

I did pull the tbelt, and used a puller to pull the ip gear. I had thought that the ip pulley shaft pin might have jammed keeping the pulley from going far enough in. this was not the case...

the gear (pulley) is not warped to tweaked (both surfaces flat).

I did notice that I can push in on the center bolt of the ip pulley, and it has a tiny bit of play. if the pulley were to stay as far "in" towards the engine as possible in the range of travel, it looks like the tbelt might ride where it is supposed to on the ip pulley. IS THIS PLAY NORMAL OR COULD SOMETHING POSSIBLY BE WRONG WITH THE IP IT'S SELF? all the ip mounting bolts are tight/ secure...

I did not think to check if the ip pulley is parallel with the cam pulley- this will be my next test. from what I remember, it seems that it is likley that the ip pulley is further away from the engine than the cam pulley.

if this is the case, how should I go about troubleshooting / is the only thing that could cause this a bent ip bracket? any other possibilities you can think of? If I find that the bracket is indeed bent, should I just take a pry bar to it or does anyone else have a better suggestion?

a few rotations of the engine by hand does indeed show that (after I move the belt back to the center of the ip pulley), the tbelt will slowly work it's way to the point that it is just slightly overhanging the edge of the pulley towards the engine side.

thank you!

[/b]

libbybapa · Post by **libbybapa** » Sun Jan 20, 2008 1:43 am

It is probably caused by a slightly different orientation of the pulley of the new injection pump. Loosen the bracket bolts and tweak it this way and that until it tracks right through a couple of revolutions. I had to go through this with a friend's car recently. It will work out.

Andrew

PS A little play in and out is normal.

idhoho · Post by **idhoho** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 10:43 am

You shouldn't have any play between the IP shaft and the IP pulley. The IP shaft should also have zero play. It sounds like something isn't seated correctly somewhere. Are you sure the IP is seated in the bracket correctly? Check it all over carefully again. Perhaps you have a bit of crap b/t the shaft and the pulley? Is the bolt securing the IP pulley too long and bottoming out? Perhaps there is something in the threads of the shaft. If you didn't have this problem before replacing the IP and, you didn't do anything reckless when removing the old IP, the bracket isn't bent. You would have to go after it with a sledge hammer to bend it!

purvisgs · Post by **purvisgs** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 3:49 pm

thanks for the tips libybapa-

I still haven't been able to get things lined up afer removing the pulley one more time, it is definatley seated all the way on the shaft and the bolt is tighetening all the way down...

I am reluctant to loosen ip bolts because I won't have ip timing dial again for another few weeks..

how much is Loosening "the bracket bolts and tweak it this way and that until it tracks right through a couple of revolutions" going to throw off the ip timing?

am I confused about "bracket bolts" vs the ip securing bolts that are loosened to time ip?

would you suggest trying to do this now without dial indicator and "time by ear/ etc" or waiting until I have tools.

Thank You!
Greg

82vdub · Post by **82vdub** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 3:54 pm

I am reluctant to loosen ip bolts because I won't have ip timing dial again for another few weeks.

That's easy. Just mark with nailpolish or tap a screwdriver between the IP and flange and you can move the IP all you want. Just return the IP to the mark you made earlier. It's not as finicky as that you have to be 100% accurate with timing.