broken down already, with an expensive tow truck bill

woodrat · Post by **woodrat** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 4:04 am

I put a new head on this car a few weeks back. I drove it around, worked out some minor bugs and then had to go on a road trip this week. I retorqued the head yesterday, on the road, at about 1400 miles. I noticed at that time that two of the injectors that I had gone through were seeping a little bit where the two halves screw together, and figured I would buy a new set of injectors when i got home. I wasn't able to find anyone locally to pop test my rebuilt ones, so I ran them as is.

My timing was off a little in the retarded direction, and it idled better with the cold start knob pulled out, so I was leaving it that way until I got home and was able to fiddle with it some more.

The car was getting only about 35-40 mpg, and I was figuring that timing, seeping injectors, a roof rack and a low geared transmission were contributing factors to that low number. But the car was running great, with no obnoxious smoke of any color. And I mean GREAT. None of my previous diesel rabbits were this peppy.

So I am on my way home last night, cruising along at about 65-70, with not even a hint of any problem, temp is good, no smoke, no funny smells, and suddenly the car starts intermittently running ragged and losing power and when I put the clutch in to get over to the side of the road, it dies. I see some smoke in the rearview mirror, but can't tell what color since it is dark.

It would turn over and sound like it was trying to run, but wouldn't. it actually sounded kind of like it did when I first was trying to start it after it had sat for years. Sometimes there was a lot of unburned diesel fumes coming from the tailpipe and then none of that. There was no oil in the tailpipe and the dipstick looked good, no water in the oil. The coolant was fine too, no oil in there, although a little puff of pressure when I undid the cap, but I would expect that on a warm engine. there are no external signs of leakage or trouble anywhere around the head, at least that I could see.

it didn't take long to start dimming the battery, so I gave up and spent $400 on a tow truck to get to a friend's house in the city, where I am right now, drinking beer and being bummed out.

Anyone have any opinions or ideas about this mess? I will be hauling it the rest of the way home on a trailer on Monday, but I will probably pull the injectors and try to get a feel for compression tomorrow AM.

thanks

Caerbannog · Post by **Caerbannog** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 6:58 am

I feel your pain... I'm going through a very similar scenario now. Definitely check your compression, and leakdown if possible. I have to say it's uncanny how similar your situation is to mine. Best of luck.

ahistand · Post by **ahistand** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 11:04 am

Did you hear any funny noises....like any evidence timing belt slipped or jumped or whatever? If there's no evidence of carnage, do a quick visual timing check between the cam, crank, and IP to make sure everything is still lined up right.

Honestly sounds like a fuel issue. Go back to the usual suspects for fuel delivery problems, which there is tons of info here on....like air in fuel line (hopefully you can see through your delivery line to your IP), clogged tank, clogged filter, water in fuel, etc. Crack a fuel injector line to see if fuel is getting there.

When you said your timing was a little retarded....how do you know? i.e., did you measure with the timing tools? Eyeball it? Try to get the timing right, with the right tools, if possible.

libbybapa · Post by **libbybapa** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 11:11 am

Yup, fuel blockage is where the smart money is at.

Andrew

woodrat · Post by **woodrat** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 11:19 am

no funny noises of any kind. I don't yet have the fancy timing gauge, and with $400 gone to the tow truck, it will be while longer before I do.

I assumed that the timing was too retarded since it idled rough unless i pulled the advance knob out, then it idled nicely.

I'll be fiddling with it today. i don't have a compression gauge but I can at least tell if one hole is missing or not.

Thanks for the help!

woodrat · Post by **woodrat** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 11:35 am

I'm hoping that it is not a slipped belt, that would suck!

But as it started to die, it would run smoothly for a second or two in between losing power. I will feel really dumb if it is just a filter, I think I have a spare in the trunk, but in the dark on the side of the road with a dying battery and minimal flashlight action, I didn't think I could accomplish much and didn't even think of the filter at the time.

When my Dodge/Cummins plugs a filter, it gradually loses power, not all at once.

how would I test the fuel supply on/off valve?

coke · Post by **coke** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 11:53 am

Fuel blockage is likely, as indicated above.. Remove the out bolt and see if there is any fuel in the pump at all.

Set the engine back to TDC and make sure all the marks are still lining up.

If your injection pump skipped a tooth you'd see that when you bring it back up to TDC. As a simple test, you could get a 1 liter soda bottle or something filled with clean diesel fuel and pipe the return and inlet line in it to see if it'll run.

82vdub · Post by **82vdub** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 12:53 pm

Yep, fuel blockage is where I would put my interest at first. I doubt it's a fuel solenoid as the car would run or wouldn't run, so if you can get it to sputter, it's not likely the fuel solenoid.

Try running the car from a clear jar of diesel fuel as well. If it runs well, your fuel problem is from the filter back to the tank somewhere.

JRM · Post by **JRM** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 1:56 pm

lets hope the cam didnt move- no keyway on these engines. fuel is most likley it, i have run dry a few times and it just mis-fires its way down to idle in a very strange way. Where are you at? If your within 200 miles of Portland PM me

woodrat · Post by **woodrat** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 2:12 pm

I charged the battery part way back up, changed out the filter after filling the new one with clean diesel and bled some air out of the lines. The line leaving the filter was dry and empty.

it tries to start but the battery is not quite up to it yet, so I left it on the charger and took a break. Next up is pulling the timing and valve covers to check the timing.

When I put this engine together, I cleaned the cam and the gear scrupulously with brake clean and tightened that bolt very well, on a new camshaft. I sure hope that it didn't move!

ahistand · Post by **ahistand** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 2:52 pm

After putting a few fuel filter on, now you will definitely have at least a little air in your line going to the pump. The best thing, so you dont run the battery dry trying to start it, is to pull a vacuum on the outlet side of the pump. I have a vacuum pump, and it works awesome for that, but most people don't. An alternative is buying a brake vacuum pump (the hand pump type) at your local auto parts store, and pull some diesel through the injection pump by applying this vacuum to the outlet nipple. This will prime the pump, so to speak. This is also a good way to determine if you do have air getting into your inlet line, as you will see the bubbles as you pull vacuum on the outlet side.

Regardless of weather you see bubbles or not, follow the above posters instructions on sucking fresh diesel from a temporary bottle or jar, into the filter.

woodrat · Post by **woodrat** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 3:40 pm

well, it has a bent valve.

I pulled all the covers off and the timing belt was really sloppy and loose between the pump and the cam. The cam gear seems tight on the cam, the belt tensioner was snug and had not slipped, but the belt was loose. I set everything up again and was trying to get it to start when I noticed that one of the cam followers was not coming up again when its cam lobe turned.

This is exactly the kind of story about these engines that made me SO careful to follow every instruction to the tee. I have no idea why that belt got so loose, but now I am totally at the end of my financial rope and I just have to shove this thing off to the side and go back to driving my truck.

I suppose that the bent valve pretty much means a new valve job all the way across, even though the head is only 2000 miles old. I would guess that at least that guide is also damaged, and I'll be lucky if I don't need a new piston too. So including the tow truck bill, I'm $1500 into this car and I have nothing to drive.

at least I know I can stop fooling around with it today.

JRM · Post by **JRM** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 4:15 pm

I got your PM, there are a couple VW shops in portland. wonder if you can tighten the belt back up and drive it on 3 cyl? well, wait without a rocker arm to remove that would damage the cam after a few hundred miles. man, what car is it? Is it your Jetta?

JRM · Post by **JRM** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 4:21 pm

yeah, id grab your truck and get a car trailer from u haul and pack er home- an 89 is new enough not to let go.

woodrat · Post by **woodrat** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 4:34 pm

Yeah, it is an 89 jetta that is actually pretty clean for its age. I don't want to let it go, but I also don't want this to happen again, and I am feeling pretty spooked about it now. I was SO careful putting this back together, but I have to admit that the belt/cam gear thing was a real PITA that I did several times before I was happy with the results. The belt was decently snug between those gears, with about 45 degrees of deflection as spec'd in the bentley. No, I did not buy a fancy tension gauge.

I have a flatbed car hauler trailer at home, so as soon as I can figure out how I am going to get home, I will be back on Tuesday to pick the car up, but I am too broke to be buying a $400 valve job right now. I'll be lucky to be able to buy the new head gasket and bolts and belt.

Is it possible, assuming that the piston is OK, to replace just the one bent valve myself?

and what did I do wrong with the belt? What could cause it to get slack in just 2000 miles? Could it have stretched out? It was a contitech belt from a german parts house.

That's the question I REALLY need to get answered. I don't want to make the same mistake again.