The Price of Diesel

Pu241 · Post by **Pu241** » Thu Apr 10, 2008 9:33 pm

surfcam wrote: I think there's going to be a place for all the alternative energy sources. Its like when the automobile came on the seen there were thousands of manufactures but there is an eventual shake out and buy out.

Think you may well be right.
May well lead to vehicals that can use many different fuels.
Thinking fuel cell with a onboard reformer to produce the needed hydrogen.

surfcam wrote: I think electric car has the best chance at success. A short range one thats cheap could satisfy the major use of car which is the short hop to work and shopping..

Maybe, but think better and cheaper photovoltaic cells or 3rd generation nuclear fission units, will be needed to power those.

surfcam wrote: It useless for me but small towns don't buy most of the cars big cities do.

Agreed, I myself drive 375 miles a week to/from work and 800 mile round trip when I go home. So while I could recharge an electric between days to/from work, or even after I get to work and again when I get back, reducing the ranged needed. I still would need something for the long range unless rapid recharge or speedy battery swaps are perfectecd!

tylernt · Post by **tylernt** » Thu Apr 10, 2008 11:38 pm

Pu241 wrote:I still would need something for the long range unless rapid recharge or speedy battery swaps are perfectecd!

Just pump out your discharged electrolyte and pump in some fresh:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vanadium_redox_battery

82vdub · Post by **82vdub** » Thu Apr 10, 2008 11:44 pm

surfcam wrote:I think electric car has the best chance at success. A short range one thats cheap could satisfy the major use of car which is the short hop to work and shopping..

If you ask the electric people, yes, the electric car is the future. If you ask the hybrid people, the hybrid is the car of the future, if you ask the hydrogen people, the hydrogen is the car of the future and on and on.............

At this point, there are as many different opinions of what will be the future that America will embrace. What drives me nuts is the government stepping in, and artificially creating demand or incentives for one technology over another. Get out of it, and let the people develop what they think is what the future is and let the people decide what they like. Right now, Ethanol is subsidized and until cellular style ethanol gets perfected, ethanol, IMO, is not the fuel of the future. It would use too much of it's own product to create itself (like 95-105%), and gasoline is somewhere around 6%. It's messing with our food market, which effects everyone. Just wait for some year to come along with poor rain, terrible weather, bad crops, storm damage, desease, etc, and you'll find that using our food to make fuel wasn't so wise.

Anyways, I have a friend that's waiting for the electric plug in car that costs less than $20k, holds 4 people and goes 200+ miles on a charge. I told him to not hold his breath. Yea, it may get here (Tesla Motors), but likely not for a while. Then, toss in the idea that this $20k car is essentially useless to use for much more than in town driving. To drive from Green Bay to Milwaukee and back will take you roughly 220-260 miles, depening on factors. So, you're pushing the max for your plug in car. So, to get the full use out of a car, you would have to own two cars so that you can use your gas car for those trips that take you more than 100 miles one way from home. Who wants to buy two cars to have one really useful one. I'm not sold, not complaining for those that want this, and are anxiously waiting to see what the brains of tomorrow develop and ideas they come up with. Just like the automobile explosion in the early 1900's, this is a rare time to have another automotive technology explosion with fuel related changes coming. I'm waiting to see what comes...........

surfcam · Post by **surfcam** » Fri Apr 11, 2008 5:48 pm

Another thing that is pretty useless to me is a hybrid. I put 325,000km on a set of brakes. Where the regeneration in that. I probably get worse mileage caring the extra weight around. The only vehicle I have the lest bit of interest in would be a 1000cc diesel front wheel drive hybrid with electric motors in the rear wheels. This car could be a four wheel drive when you need it and extra power for passing. The chance of something like that coming on the market zero to nun. My cups half empty today.

Post by **Fatmobile** » Fri Apr 11, 2008 11:23 pm

To drive from Green Bay to Milwaukee and back will take you roughly 220-260 miles, depening on factors. So, you're pushing the max for your plug in car. So, to get the full use out of a car, you would have to own two cars

Or a generator on a trailer for long trips.

JRM · Post by **JRM** » Fri Apr 18, 2008 10:44 pm

Just keeps getting worse! with Unleaded being nearly $1.00 a gallon less expensive a GEO metro that gets the same MPG as a Diesel makes more sence!
http://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/car/642024054.html

tylernt · Post by **tylernt** » Fri Apr 18, 2008 11:34 pm

JRM wrote:Just keeps getting worse! with Unleaded being nearly $1.00 a gallon less expensive a GEO metro that gets the same MPG as a Diesel makes more sence!

Wrong attitude -- getting a WVO kit makes more sense.

bvolks · Post by **bvolks** » Sat Apr 19, 2008 6:10 am

We actually looked at a Geo Metro last night to replace the wife's gas guzzling (30 mpg) Tempo. My diesel Jetta is down right now but I glanced at the pump as I was gassing up last night and diesel is at $1.43 now

.

82vdub · Post by **82vdub** » Sat Apr 19, 2008 9:34 am

bvolks wrote:We actually looked at a Geo Metro last night to replace the wife's gas guzzling (30 mpg) Tempo.

I have a friend that took a job out of town and is looking at a newer (1995+) diesel. I asked if he had considered a Hyundai or Civic or something like that. He said that the prices for these cars are really high and nobody will move on their price either.

madmedix · Post by **madmedix** » Sat Apr 19, 2008 10:33 am

A very important point everyone has touched on: no matter what the etiology, method or market: The Man taxes the snot out of it.

JRM · Post by **JRM** » Sat Apr 19, 2008 8:24 pm

I cannot find Bio diesel or SVO for under $5.00 a gallon, so the GEO metro is about the only choice- but a good one in my mind- a more modern car with EFI will be a nice change. My Civic gets 40MPG and the girlfriend has tab's on that

Ziptar · Post by **Ziptar** » Sun Apr 20, 2008 7:24 am

JRM wrote:Just keeps getting worse! with Unleaded being nearly $1.00 a gallon less expensive a GEO metro that gets the same MPG as a Diesel makes more sence!

And, there is a whole other website of Metro Geeks same as us VW Diesel Geeks trying to get even more mileage out of it... metrompg.com I kinda wish I had a Metro just to fool with.

Seriously though, the diesel costs more than gas thing seems to happen every spring. Although this year it's more out of whack. Seems like gas is catching up around these parts. It won't be long before gas costs more than diesel by as much as the reverse now. Usually just in time for "Summer Driving Season".

Oh, and don't forget the best of both worlds 10HP Diesel Geo Metro

chrischris · Post by **chrischris** » Wed Apr 23, 2008 7:18 pm

In Seattle, you will see most fuel stations selling diesel for around $4.50 per gallon.

But I don't understand why biodiesel seems to increase along with petrol diesel. I swung by an independent biodiesel pump in Freemont and saw their B99 priced at $5.58. With supply and demand aside, why do biodiesel prices correlate with the cost of petrol diesel?

Post by **Fatmobile** » Wed Apr 23, 2008 11:17 pm

They are producing so much biodiesel that the price of vegetable oil went up.
They shut down at least one local biodiesel plant because of this.

chrischris · Post by **chrischris** » Thu Apr 24, 2008 2:42 am

Fatmobile wrote:They are producing so much biodiesel that the price of vegetable oil went up.
They shut down at least one local biodiesel plant because of this.

But why does the price of bio diesel correlate with the price of normal diesel? I don't quite understand why two fuels with different sources seem to increase at the same time (supply and demand aside)