Rear brake line replacement

jason · Post by **jason** » Fri Jun 06, 2008 7:35 pm

Hi everybody,
I recently removed the fuel tank on my Rabbit so I could get out all of the sludge that had accumulated over the years of driving and the past few of sitting in my garage (don't store your car with fuel in the tank, I got at least a 1 quart of nasty sludge out!). To drop the tank it is necessary to disconnect the rear brake lines, well of course they were very corroded from being in the salt land for the past 26 years so they wouldn't budge and I managed to break the driver's side hard line going to the front of the car right at the connector. I'm guessing the same is going to happen to the passenger side too because it wouldn't budge either, but I cut the rubber line ($10 at a local auto parts store) before I broke it.

Other than the connector, the rest of the brake line looks pretty good; should I replace both lines from front to back or can I put a new connector on the existing line and get/make another mount closer to the front of the car for the hose+line union? My gut tells me I should replace the existing line because the car is so old and that modifying the brake system is a bad idea. With that in mind, I haven't been able to find a pre-made brake line long enough from any of the local auto parts stores that will reach the rear passenger side, though napa has one listed for the rear drivers side. Does anybody know where to get one or would I be better off buying some bulk line, connectors and a double flare tool (I didn't see anything from Jack)?

Thanks and sorry for the long winded question,
Jason

82vdub · Post by **82vdub** » Fri Jun 06, 2008 8:27 pm

I have always replaced just what was necessary, unless 24" further down was a union I could take apart and splice it in that way. If when you try to flare the line left on the car, you have to look upstream of the break point to see what's up there and the condition of the line. You have to pull the line from the body quite far to get the flare tool around it, and depending on how much you flex it, you may make another break further upstream. I've always bought sections of straight line and bent it as best I could to match the old line and installed it. If you don't know this already, the brake lines will be in SAE sizes, and so will the fittings on the end of them. The factory fittings on the VW will be metric. So at the back wheel cylinders, you will need the end that goes on the brake line (SAE), a SAE to metric converter, and then the metric fitting that fits into the wheel cylinder. My local Carquest has them in stock.

jason · Post by **jason** » Fri Jun 06, 2008 9:13 pm

82vdub, good to see your still driving the VW; I'll be up in your neck of the woods tomorrow. Do you happen to know the thread size of those adapters and the approximate cost?

Thanks,
Jason

Post by **Fatmobile** » Sat Jun 07, 2008 3:49 am

I almost always cut the rubber lines when dropping the rear.
Most of the time I end up replacing the metal lines to the rear anyway.
End nuts stolen from salvage yard master cylinders and a 25 foot roll of 3/16.
Supposed to be a bubble flare but the stock ones look more like a "D" so I flip the flaring tool to the flat side and do the first part of a double flare.
I clean the tank by hooking a filter up before an electric fuel pump and "vacuum" the tank. Through the fuel gauge sender hole.
Through the filter, pump and back into the tank.

greengoblin · Post by **greengoblin** » Sat Jun 07, 2008 6:13 pm

82vdub wrote:If you don't know this already, the brake lines will be in SAE sizes, and so will the fittings on the end of them. The factory fittings on the VW will be metric. So at the back wheel cylinders, you will need the end that goes on the brake line (SAE), a SAE to metric converter, and then the metric fitting that fits into the wheel cylinder. My local Carquest has them in stock.

I was able to get metric lines from Advance Auto Parts when my rear lines went out.

82vdub · Post by **82vdub** » Sat Jun 07, 2008 7:56 pm

Jason, I don't know the sizes or part numbers for any of the fittings. I've always brought in an old line for them to size up.

greengoblin wrote:I was able to get metric lines from Advance Auto Parts when my rear lines went out.

I guess either my parts store doesn't carry metric, or I've just been blind each time I've tried to get hard brake line. Learn something new every day.

jason · Post by **jason** » Sat Jun 07, 2008 9:14 pm

82vdub wrote:Jason, I don't know the sizes or part numbers for any of the fittings. I've always brought in an old line for them to size up.

greengoblin wrote:I was able to get metric lines from Advance Auto Parts when my rear lines went out.
I guess either my parts store doesn't carry metric, or I've just been blind each time I've tried to get hard brake line. Learn something new every day.

Great minds think alike, I went to Advance Auto Parts here in Appleton before reading this post and bought all of the parts, except the rubber lines because they didn't have any. 25' coil of 3/16 brake line, 4 SAE fittings, and 4 SAE to metric adapters for $30. I also picked up a rental tool for a $20 deposit, but it only does the double flare, hence the adapters and I didn't see Fatmobile's post about flipping the tool over. They didn't have any pre-made lines long enough, looks like I should have waited for my next work trip to Sheboygan and hit up that store, oh well I still got a pretty good deal.

Fatmobile wrote:I clean the tank by hooking a filter up before an electric fuel pump and "vacuum" the tank. Through the fuel gauge sender hole.
Through the filter, pump and back into the tank.

Wow, I wish I would have thought of that. I have the parts sitting right in the garage, that would have saved me so much time. Do you use a solvent like gasoline to dissolve the stuff or just leave the diesel in?

I've used a regular flare tool for water pipe quite a few times but never one of these double flare things, so I think I'll go and practice a few before trying to do it on the lines for the car.

Thanks everyone,
Jason

Fatmobile, are you going to the midwest renewable energy fair this year?

P.S.
For the record the adapter is 3/16IF to M10-1.0 part # 327850.1 for $1.88 and the SAE fitting is a 3/16" tube nut part # 321413.1 for $1.88

Post by **Fatmobile** » Sun Jun 08, 2008 5:19 pm

I don't use a solvent but I suppose some seafoam would help.
I converted a gasser to diesel,... the car had sat for years and the gas in the tank had turned to grit.
Cleaned it as good as I could and drove it, these grits got past the tank screen and into the fuel line.
I ended up hooking the pump to the filter and backflushing the lines,... into the tank, through the filter, pump and back the engine bay.
Took 7 hours to flush the system and he put a small/clear plastic filter in front of the stock filter.

Yes I do plan a trip to the energy fair this year. I haven't registered to exhibit my car but am converting my 4 door project to run on vegy and might show off the new car/system if they don't have all the spots filled.

I'll post a build topic in the biofuels forum.

jason · Post by **jason** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 10:39 pm

I'm putting the brake line system back together this weekend, just wondering if anybody knows of an anti-seize fluid or paste that is safe for brake system components. I've been using Permatex anti-seize on pretty much all of the bolts I've removed and replaced on the car so far, but it does not say if it's safe for brake line connections. Will I be safe swabbing a little on the fittings or is this a bad idea? Everything gets so corroded here up north, I really liked living in the southwest where 10 years of corrosion is like 1 or 2 here.

Thanks,
Jason

coke · Post by **coke** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 11:30 pm

Don't use antiseize on your brake components (connections, bleeder valves), it contains metal filings and could wreak havoc on your system.

If you want to make sure you never have to worry about your brakes, napa is selling copper-nickel plated brake line in 25 foot rolls for about 40 bucks, doesn't rust, and I also live up north so the salty roads in the winter time really screws up my brake lines after a year or too and this seems like it would pretty much alleviate the problem. Unless you had to replace a wheel cylinder or caliper.

Monomer · Post by **Monomer** » Sun Jun 15, 2008 1:05 am

coke wrote:Don't use antiseize on your brake components (connections, bleeder valves), it contains metal filings and could wreak havoc on your system.

If you want to make sure you never have to worry about your brakes, napa is selling copper-nickel plated brake line in 25 foot rolls for about 40 bucks, doesn't rust, and I also live up north so the salty roads in the winter time really screws up my brake lines after a year or too and this seems like it would pretty much alleviate the problem. Unless you had to replace a wheel cylinder or caliper.

cunfer tubing. I've never see it besides some sites on the net - I'll have to look into that.

It bends TONS easier also. If you have a local PnP style year around, go and grab some of the lives from any volvo - they've been using copper/nickel since the 70's.

A proper Bubble flare should be used. Make sure you flaring tool isn't marring the tubing up where it clamps. Be SURE to de-burr the tube before you even think of flaring it.

Flared unions need NO Sealants/friction reducers. If it leaks, it's from a bad flair, dirt in the joint or a cracker flare.

Post by **Fatmobile** » Sun Jun 15, 2008 2:45 am

I don't think he wants it for a sealant,.. or to reduce friction.
He wants to be able to remove it next time it gets worked on.
I use antisieze on my brake line nuts.
I put a smear on the brake line before I slide the line nut over it,... so the nut doesn't seize to the line and twist it off when I remove it.
I make sure to wipe any extra off so it doesn't get into the system.
Also some on the linenut threads.
I also use it on the bleeder screws, with no fear of it entering the system, because bleeding them will force any out.
I spray PB blaster into and around the bleeder.... let it soak the bleeder threads from the inside.

Quantum-man · Post by **Quantum-man** » Sun Jun 15, 2008 2:49 am

coke wrote:.

If you want to make sure you never have to worry about your brakes, napa is selling copper-nickel plated brake line in 25 foot rolls for about 40 bucks, doesn't rust, .

As issued standard with a Quantum [at least over here in the UK...
Also we got plastic fuel tanks

Monomer · Post by **Monomer** » Sun Jun 15, 2008 9:19 pm

Fatmobile wrote:I don't think he wants it for a sealant,.. or to reduce friction.
He wants to be able to remove it next time it gets worked on.
I use antisieze on my brake line nuts.
I put a smear on the brake line before I slide the line nut over it,... so the nut doesn't seize to the line and twist it off when I remove it.
I make sure to wipe any extra off so it doesn't get into the system.
Also some on the linenut threads.
I also use it on the bleeder screws, with no fear of it entering the system, because bleeding them will force any out.
I spray PB blaster into and around the bleeder.... let it soak the bleeder threads from the inside.

I wouldn't risk it.

if you do endup using copper-nickel tubing, it wont matter anyways.

Caerbannog · Post by **Caerbannog** » Mon Jun 16, 2008 7:21 am

Monomer wrote:
I wouldn't risk it.

if you do endup using copper-nickel tubing, it wont matter anyways.

Remember that the line nut is still (plated-) steel, often going into steel or cast iron. Same for steel bleeders into calipers and cylinders: I anti-seize them religiously. Even stainless fasteners should be anti-seized to avoid galling.

Just my .02USD .