Small 1.6 starter vs. Big 1.6 Starter

[Fatmobile]

Cranking speed is important.
Bumping this one up from the last page.

[hagar]

v8volvo are you in Seattle now ? ----the starter on the Anacotes Duckling --you helped me get ---starts like a gasser ----click and varoom .--I never heard the starter,

You were right --it looked like great potential------it was.

Some professional had a hand inside that girl. ---- drives like a dream.--and the sunroof does work perfect.

hagar.

[82rabbitdiesel]

can't seem to post pix without using a hosting site??Dave

quite true. needs a link address.
here's an informative post i found the other day, kind of on the same line of discussion here:

This is a post by Moljinar and is real informative. I cleaned it up a little but I can't take credit for this info:

Starter relay for heatsoak problems
Bosch starters use a electromagnetic solenoid for activating the starter mechanism. Like any electromagnet, when hot their electromagnetic force is substantially reduced, often to the point the solenoid can't pull hard enough to activate the starter. ALL Bosch starters suffer from this problem, particularly when old and always when installed on an automatic transmission (right under the exhaust manifold, a brilliant piece of engineering)

Symptom: You turn the key and nothing happens. Nothing. Not even a click. The voltmeter does however show you sucking major current.

You can wait for the starter to cool off (about an hour usually) or you can get more current to the solenoid so it can finally develop enough force to run the starter. Although the wiring is fine it's not heavy enough to pass the current required by the solenoid when hot.

Solution #1 get a long screwdriver and short from the main starter terminal to the solenoid terminal. Works great. Makes lots of sparks. Destroys screwdrivers. Sometimes cars.

Solution #2 Get a new solenoid/starter. Doesn't always solve the problem.

Solution # 3 Wire in a relay that's triggered by the keyswitch and has current on a heavy wire direct from the battery.

Bosch makes a relay kit just for this. Seems it's been a problem since VW Beetles roamed the earth. It's called the WR1. In many peoples opinion it's not heavy enough for the job. Solenoids can desire up to 30 amps of current to work. Which makes a small relay a part ready to melt, short out and possibly engage the starter and not let it release. Not good. We need a better relay.

Here's what I did. Went to AutoZone and got what is known around the world as a Ford starter relay. Design dates back to the 30's when I think they used to actually pass the current to the starter thru one of these. So it's kinda heavy duty. The part number is Duralast F496. Cost about $10.

You'll need to make a short wire from the keyswitch wire to the relay post. Another longer wire from the battery terminal to the big post (either one) and another to go from the other big relay post to the solenoid terminal. All of the connectors are available at Walmart/Autozone etc. I always install such relays close to the starter so the current path is short. But realistically you could mount it on the firewall or fender and be ok.

Here's the relay
http://p250.merlyyn.com/images/relayboxsm.JPG

Here's how the wires attach to it. http://p250.merlyyn.com/images/relayposedsm.JPG

I installed it to a tab on the tranny housing since the bracket is the ground of the circuit for this relay.
http://p250.merlyyn.com/images/starterrelaysm.JPG

Here's a closeup of how it's nestled in there.
http://p250.merlyyn.com/images/installedcu.JPG

Here's a wiring diagram I found in another forum but it's nicely made.
http://merlyyn.com/images/starterrelaydiagram.jpg

Note the diagram shows a 15A fuse but that may be too small. Start with 15 and work your way up to a 30A. My hookup uses no fuse at all but I don't really recommend that for others.
http://p250.merlyyn.com/images/autorelay.jpg

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
The heat soak relay fix is not unique to automatics but is more commonly needed on them. Here's a link to Bentley forums, the three jpgs linked in the 2nd post are the factory bulletin on the topic. This factory version of the fix uses a Bosch or other Euro relay and several other VW specific terminals and a terminal block.
http://tech.bentleypublishers....art=0
The "problem" and cure are actually as old as Bosch starters. The write up uses a Ford relay and it is a far more robust and dependable relay which is perfectly suited to this application.

The Autozone part works great, but if you can find the actual ford relay it has recessed terminals. The terminals actually sit down in a hole and there is a slot where the wires run to the terminals. Keeps the odd wrench from shorting against the terminals when working on your car. Any ford truck or van up to 1986 has them so look for it next salvage yard trip.

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zer...59955

[Fatmobile]

That relay is to supply more/better current than the ignition switch can supply? Looks like the ignition switch triggers a relay that supplies power to the small plug on the starter solenoid.
I've know several ignition switches that have failed,.. this fix might save them too.
The Fatmobile has a pushbutton starter, always has, from the time I got it as a little gasser.

A thought from my cheap side: Last time I checked the solenoids were getting expensive. It would be nice to be able to stick a cheap Ford starter solenoid in parallel with the stock solenoid.
It seems like I did that as a quick fix on my '79 Honda civic back in the 90s.