just needs to start

moosestafa · Post by **moosestafa** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 10:06 am

Ok just found out that my relay is not bad. I didn't have a good connection from the starter to the relay, so I fixed it. Now I am getting power to the glow plugs, but it stays on for about 10 sec, is that normal? Also my glow plug light or wire to the light is bad, I will check that later.

When I tried starting the car white smoke was coming out the back but it still wasn't starting. How do I know if the Injectors are bad, and should white smoke be coming out the exhaust when it isn't starting? Thanks.

82vdub · Post by **82vdub** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 10:42 am

10 second glow period is fine. The white smoke is probably blue colored smoke and is likely slightly burned diesel fuel. You're getting fuel to the cylinders. Did you try this with the block heater energized? How fast does the engine turn over when you crank it?

moosestafa · Post by **moosestafa** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 11:06 am

Yes, the block heater is on and the block is really hot. It turns fast when my foot is all the way down on the pedal, it sounds like it could go forever, but it doesn't start. It keeps turning for a sec after I take my foot off the gas, but doesn't hold. It is just so close to starting but doesn't. I will move the ip a little bit back away from the engine (because right now it is as close to the block as I can physically move it being at .036) maybe that will place the timing a bit better. If it still doesn't start then it has to be the injectors right? Thanks.

tawney · Post by **tawney** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 2:29 pm

If the injection pump is rotated as far as it will go toward the engine and your timing is at .036" then you've got the belt on the sprocket misaligned by one tooth, but .036 should be good enough for starting especially if you've got the cold start advance pulled out. Unless your .036 is an erroneous measurement, retarding it by moving away from the engine probably isn't what it needs, but at this point you might as well try it anyway. I like it a bit more advanced at .039".

The grey smoke at least means you're getting fuel into the cylinders, so I wouldn't worry too much about the injectors yet; maybe it's still a timing issue.

I've never used WD40 as a starting fluid, but I hear it works well in these little diesels.

If you rotate the engine by hand with a wrench on the crankshaft bolt, can you feel the force build up at each compression stroke? I'm just wondering how good your compression is.

moosestafa · Post by **moosestafa** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 2:36 pm

It gets really hard to rotate it ccw from TDC then it loosens up a bit then is really hard to move again, so I am assuming that is what you are talking about, I also hear little breths when I rotate the crankshaft I am assuming that that is the compressed air leaving? In the manual it says the range should be at .033-.037, so how are you starting your car at .039? I will move it around a bit and get back. Thanks.

82vdub · Post by **82vdub** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 2:43 pm

I agree that it's probably time to start playing with the IP timing. You can have it a tooth off on the IP sprocket and still have it timed correctly, just that your IP will be rotated one way or the other pretty far. Just so you know it's not necessarily a big deal at this point.

Be careful with starting fluid aids. You don't want to break piston rings.

The little breath's is the compression air

tawney · Post by **tawney** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 2:52 pm

It would be better to make the rotations CW rather than CCW, but the rotational resistance indicates compression which sounds good enough. The cold start advance moves the pump about .008". Just an idea: I timed my pump one time while the cold start was pulled out, and, of course, it was way too retarded to start well or run well.

I think my Bentely manual recommends .039" for older engines, but in either case, that .003" difference is not your starting problem. It would have to be off by more than that to keep it from starting.

WD40 is supposed to be a safe alternative for diesels rather than the typical starting fluid.

Post by **Fatmobile** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 11:13 pm

Yeah, with the block heater on you don't even need glowplugs.
You must not have the glow plug relay temp sensor hooked up or it wouldn't have even turned on for 10 secs.
Sounds like timing, and I agree with the pump sprocket being one tooth off.
The line on the sprocket should line up close to the indicator on the pump not a mark on the bracket or metal shield (A2).

moosestafa · Post by **moosestafa** » Sat Aug 02, 2008 10:39 pm

I thought I would take your advice and make sure it wasn't timing. I started over in the bently manual and reset the timing according to all specifications. It is now at .036. The notches are lined up with the IP, metal sheild, and the pump sproket. All locks were in place and tension set for a great timing belt.

(By the way how can you be a tooth off when you have the IP lock in place? If I am at TDC in the Crankshaft peephole and the IP lock is in place and the tension is right in between the camshaft and IP sproket, how could I be a tooth off?)

This is the third time I have checked the timing and everything reads fine, it still isn't starting. I know you can check the injectors while the car is running, how do I check them when it doesn't run? I am still getting fuel to the injectors and I did see a bit of black smoke come out this time. I am thinking I might have to take it into a shop and have them test things to make sure they function correctly. Anything you guys recomend before I take it in? I don't want to but I also don't want to buy more tools to test things, like a compression test kit etc... Any advice would be good. Thanks.

tawney · Post by **tawney** » Sun Aug 03, 2008 1:13 pm

If the pump is at .036 with the lines matched up, then you're not a tooth off; I believe you had previously said it was at .036 with the pump pushed as close to the engine as possible. Either way, .036 is good enough. You've got the cold start cable pulled? The glow plugs are good? You're using good fuel? I'm out of ideas other than the injectors and compression issue; diesel compression testers are pretty cheap sometimes on ebay; cheaper than a trip to the mechanics.

Shoot some WD40 into the intake while cranking; see if that helps.

Steve

moosestafa · Post by **moosestafa** » Sun Aug 03, 2008 11:40 pm

Is their a specific size or adapter I need to get for a compression tester or will any diesel compression tester work? I will try the WD40, if I test and it is all good then it must be the injectors. Thanks again.

bscutt · Post by **bscutt** » Mon Aug 04, 2008 11:56 am

Most gauges I have seen come with the two most commonly used fittings, covering VW and Mercedes diesels at a minimum. I don't know how many options there are but the one I bought on Ebay covered VW and probably several others.

Post by **Fatmobile** » Mon Aug 04, 2008 2:05 pm

You call it a peep hole,.. Did you remove all of the plastic plugs on the timing hole?
Looking through the tiny center hole isn't accurate enough for me. I like to see the pointer.

A1-2-A3 · Post by **A1-2-A3** » Mon Aug 04, 2008 8:59 pm

Ok just asking but when you say your timing your enigne I get that you are pulling off the timing belt cover, locking the injection pump and checking your mark on the crank. I never read that you pulled the valve cover off and loosened the cam sproket and locked the cam with a piece of flat bar, set the belt tension and then tightened the cam sproket. If you do not do it that way your cam will be slightly out of time and your belt will be jumping around and trying to climb on the back side of the cam sproket and it will smoke black and fire maybe and then die. I have done it the wrong way before I know...If you got everything set to TDC and then you turn it over two times and recheck your cam, crank, and IP timing and its dead on with each revolution and your belt tension can just twist it 45 degrees between the cam and IP sprokets with your thumb and index finger and you have compression and your injection pump is pushing diesel out to the injectors that it will fire. Timing set to .yt32y3 means nothing and it will run if you have your pump with the line lined up with the line on the front cover.

moosestafa · Post by **moosestafa** » Fri Oct 31, 2008 6:24 pm

Thanks for all the info. I have done all that you have said but I still don't know if the Injectors are bad. I do remember when everything was set to TDC I tightened the belt tensioner and the TDC marker in the Crankshaft shiffted a bit to the front of the car. It was only about 2 millimeters off but I didn't think it would be that big of a deal. Would that make a difference? How can I make the Crankshaft not move while I tighten, because nothing else moves? Thanks for your time.