HHO Booster on V-dub diesels

[82rabbitdiesel]

Here's one cheap!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Water4Ga ... dZViewItem

bid stopped at 40.00 w/ $18.55 shipping bc reserve wasn't met? how much was he expecting and how much were his parts? what a crazy world.

[bscutt]

Snake oil.

You can't make enough hydrogen with this to make a difference.

[hagar]

Hagar how do you use Carbide? ----never mind --keep experimenting . WE yes all of us learn more by being "WRONG" ,than by being right --EH ? -----just ask Olde hagar.

Am I embarrassed and ashamed ? ----yes , BUT I learned.

hagar.

[bcoverss]

I'm building two like in the eBay auction in the post above. $40 is to much. Not that much $$ in matterials. I'm putting it all together tonight.

Learning and innovation go hand in hand. The arrogance of success is to think that what you did yesterday will be sufficient for tomorrow.

“Innovation is not the product of logical thought, although the result is tied to logical structure.â€

[bcoverss]

For those interested in trying this the below link is some video I shot of the two units working on my VW.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 8099034533

[82vdub]

As someone that's fascinated with all these ideas on alternate fuels, I'm going to be anxiously waiting to hear if this has improved your fuel mileage - which I'm sure you will post the results here

[bcoverss]

I will post my MPG's from this experiment. Just be patient. It takes me a month to get through a tank of diesel with out hydrogen. Also being in FL in the summer I am running the A/C full time. I want to hook a dash mounted Amp gauge up to it so I can monitor the amps it's using. I also had the idea of pulsing it with the DC power to see if that effects it any.

[CoolAirVw]

.... Also since the alternator is always running when the engine is running your not actually going to produce extra energy to produce the hydrogen,....

The unknowing "mechanic" has changed a few alternators in his day and he spins the pulley with his hand while holding the alternator and it spins freely and this is how he "judges" how much load is put on the engine by the alternator. With it plugged in to the car and producing a person could not spin it by hand PERIOD.

What a person needs to understand is the inherant inefficiency of an alternator. The magnetic field is produced by running amperage through the "field" windings. More amperage through the field = bigger magnetic field = more amps produced by the alternator. Those amps used to make the field are gone/done finado. Do you understand that it takes amps to make amps? Think about this for awhile.

.....you only using energy that would otherwise be wasted energy.

Nope. Under no load there is very little "fielding" of the alternator and its producing very little, and of course putting no load on the engine. But add more items, like headlights, booming stereo, heated seats, heated windsheild, heated mirrors, electric windows, hydrogen electrolizer, blower motor, radiator fan motor ect and all of a sudden your running lots of amps through that "field" in order to produce those amps for that other stuff, and end result is higher load on engine, meaning use more fuel.

At a 15 to 30 amp draw it's pretty minimal ....

15 amps is a huge load. Remember if your "device" needs 15 amps more than normal, your actual load increase is gonna be 15+ amps with the extra "field".

when you consider alternators are putting out far more than that.

Are they? No they are not. They put out nothing under no load and at High load (full feild or 50+ amps) they can potentially kill the motor (at idle) if your belts are good an tight.

Anybody remeber "full fielding" a older cars alternator and stalling the car? Your supposed to "full field" at 1500 rpm but we never did.

Come on guys. These systems don't use any more than a modern stereo system.

Your modern stereo system can make your car less efficient.

Turn my headlights off and get better mileage. Your talking infinitesimal increases from turning off the headlights or turning off the stereo. If alternators pulled that hard on the engine they'd have clutches like A/C compressors. You can't even notice a engine drain from a alternator under load as you do from a A/C compressor under load.

Sounds like what your saying is all the information tylernet and libbybapa told you is crap.

If alternators pulled that hard on the engine they'd have clutches like A/C compressors.

They do! Its called a voltage regulator. It controls the "field" windings!

Please consider all the above educational as to how an alternator works and not a personal attack.

I admire your sense of adventure and willingness to try something. I even think there might be some gains to be made, which is why me and my co-worker built one ourselves. We had a car come through the shop with a electrolizer on it, and we got excited so we built one. More on that later.

[CoolAirVw]

Here's a electrolizer that I tested. This car came through my shop. It was on a acura 4 cylinder. (I think)



The customer claimed 7 MPG increase since the unit was installed. I talked to him for awhile about amp draw, electrolyte percentage and how he measured fuel useage, and he basically answered, "Huh????"

Following picture is with the car running and the electrolizer on. It was drawing 1.2 amps cold. Not much load there. You can see I have the meter in series with the electrolizer. Thats probably not the best way to measure amps, but I didn't think of it at the time. Would be better with a amp clamp to make sure the meter wasn't affecting the current. So actual amp draw might be higher. I'm also sure, due to later tests, that as the electrolizer warms up resistance goes down and amp draw goes up. You can just make out my meter leads stuck in where the fuse goes. Later, I notices his water level was low, so the plates were only 1/4-1/2 submerged. This definatly would affect his amp draw.



We played with it a little and found we could get enough hydrogen to make a little pop but not much more.

What I found most interesting, is that the electrolizer, after producing hydrogen, would act as a fuel cell, or maybe just a battery. At least that was my theory. Look at the pic. This is with the car off and the fuse removed. Anyone got another explanation as to why this voltage might have been there?



I'll take some pics of the one we built and post more later.

[82vdub]

As Coolairvw has layed out, a higher amperage draw on the system will cause higher rotational resistance within the alternator as the load increases.

Years ago I read a book called "All Corvette's are Red". The book was written by someone that had exclusive access to GM's meetings etc regarding the development of the then new to be C4 series Corvette. It's been years since I read the book, but I do remember that there was a chapter in the book that dealt with fuel economy. Some items in that section that I remember were daytime running lights and the additional load they put on the alternator, things like how thick the glass was and what shade of tint it would be which would also increase the size of the AC system, fan, etc - ie: load on the alternator.

On a real world VW application, when sitting at a light and my radiator fan comes on, the tone of idle speed on my little 1.6NA changes. So, that poor little fan pulling 8-12A (or whatever it pulls) does effect the loading on the alternator and engine. Coolairvw is right on.

[rabbit_man]

I know a guy that installed one, he says he usually goes 270 miles on a tank and when I talked to him he was still on the first tank since adding the HHO jar so he didn't know exact numbers but he'd already gone 330 miles. Also he has a 8.4amp fuse running it.

[bcoverss]

Thanks CoolAir! Your input is constructive. Very interesting that you customers HHO was putting out voltage when off. Could it be your customers 7 mpg increase is from the unit acting as a battery and taking load off the alternator? It appears that what I need to build is a unit that uses low amps 2 to 5 amps maybe and produces a lot of hydrogen. What I'm using now starts at 7 amps and gets to 14 or 15 amps after 30 mins. After 30 mins if I take off the output hose and put it in a glass of water it has a steady stream of bubbles coming off it.

[CoolAirVw]

Could it be your customers 7 mpg increase is from the unit acting as a battery and taking load off the alternator?

Na, actually I just think the guy wanted to beleive there was an increase so there was. Also he was probably driving easier since he put it on.

It appears that what I need to build is a unit that uses low amps 2 to 5 amps maybe and produces a lot of hydrogen.

Therein lies the problem. More amps = more HHO. Less amps = less HHO.

You "think" you need alot of hydrogen, but do you? How much hydrogen do you need at idle? How much do you need accelerating from a stop? How much do you need at cruise? How much do you need with the pedal on the floor?

If the theory is, "A certain amount of HHO will "enhance" the combustion of the fuel to get more energy out of the fuel", then there will be an exact quantity (X quantity) that will make "peak" combustion dependent upon quatity of diesel fuel injected. Making more HHO than X quantity is simply loading up your Alternator making you use more fuel. But the problem is if you dont put in enough HHO to "enhance" the combustion your just wasting amps making "too little" HHO.

So, without a "control" on your Electrolizer you best hope is to experiment with HHO output till your MPG increases. I would your target would be to optimize X for the type of driving you do the most. IE....If your on the hiway alot you would need to make enough HHO for your RPMs at hiway cruise.

It really seems to me that there needs to be some control on the thing to optimize X quantity for all ranges of RPM/Throttle. A PWM (pulse width modulation) controller would seem ideal, maybe made from a BASIC stamp, with a reflashable chip to finely tune the "fuel map".

What I'm using now starts at 7 amps and gets to 14 or 15 amps after 30 mins. After 30 mins if I take off the output hose and put it in a glass of water it has a steady stream of bubbles coming off it.

I would assume that amperage changing due to the electrolyte warming up. You should measure the temp of the electrolye (for research purposes) too see how much it changes.

Am I understanding correctly that you have little HHO production (based on bubbles in water) when you are at 7 amps??

Here are some great HHO links. The first one is very informative with lots of math formula's no one is ever gonna use, but it tells priciples everyone needs to understand. It also tells how to measure HHO output.

<a href="http://www.waterfuelcell.org/WFCproject ... l_v1.2.pdf" target="_blank">High-efficiency series-cell electrolyzer</a>

<a href="http://waterpoweredcar.com/pdf.files/D9.pdf" target="_blank">Practical Guide to Free Energy Devices</a>

<a href="http://waterpoweredcar.com/pdf.files/D14.pdf" target="_blank">Practical Guide to Free Energy Devices pt 2</a>

[A1-2-A3]

I know of two fleets that run HHO units on their semis and they swear by the mileage increase. I think they run a PWM pulse width modulator that makes them worth the while. I guess the PWM controls the current to the HHO generator and applies only pulses of electricity so it does not always run at a high amp rating all the time and still will produce a good amount of hydrogen. Thats my guess anyways. I would still like someone to give a honest reading of MPG difference with and without.

[HOPPING DIESEL]

I don't know anyone who has tried HHO technology on a VW yet... I have a neighbor who made one of those double jar units and has it in a 3/4 ton V8 dodge pickup. He is getting a 7mpg increase. He is a long time mechanic and we are good friends so I know he would be honest with me, good or bad.

I think this technology has a lot of potential. We had a neighbor back in the seventies that ran a ford mercury on water alone and got up to 30 miles per hour. Being a "off the wall" science geek I am pretty used to people taking shots at what they do not understand. And it is understandable, society pretty much teaches us to do that from day one. I guess I am fortunate that my dad showed me the importance of thinking out of the box.