New Owner - 1981 Rabbit Diesel

[bscutt]

clean diesel fuel is essentially clear. It may take a bit of cranking to get the fuel from the filter into the pump and you may want to crack open the lines at each injector to make sure you don't have any air in the lines. If your glow plugs are not all working you will have trouble starting the engine this time of year so that could also be slowing down your efforts. Also unless you have replaced the clear line they can yellow or darken with age so it's difficult to judge the color of the fuel in there.

[82vdub]

I agree with bscutt. Diesel for taxable road use is clear, but a lot of time has a greenish tint to it. If the diesel in your car has a brownish color, it's likely old. Depending on how full the tank is, I would definately either siphon the brownish fuel out, or dilute it with fresh fuel. I'd even recommend that you siphon as much out as you can and fill with fresh fuel before you try to run it more.

Your 5w40 synthetic oil may lead to some leaking seal issues with the synthetic oil in it. You'll know if this happens.

Winterization of diesel fuel is totally up to the gas station buying the fuel from the distributor. It's more expensive to buy winterized diesel and likely most stations use it in the winter, but you never know. I would highly recommend that you use a lubrication additive to the fuels at each fill up. These cars were designed to run on 2000PPM sulpher content fuel, and today's fuel has 15PPM sulfer content in it. The fuel additive will also clean the fuel and injector system and help remove water from the system too.

To know for sure if you're getting fuel to the IP and injectors, crack an injector line loose and crank over the engine. Fuel should leak at the loose injector line to let you know that it's getting fuel. You may have to rig up a jar of fuel with a filter in it to get the fuel sucking through the IP to get the car running. If the IP is dry, it may take a long time to get it to suck fuel, if it ever does. You could also remove the "out" bolt on the IP and fill the IP with fuel. That should also do the same thing. But, make sure you get rid of that bad fuel in it.

[doonboggle]

Hey fellows ... and ladies if any present ... kEEP POSTING TO THIS THREAD !! I am picking up lot's of clues and ideas. I have also a 1981, and presently have taken off the pump, the filter, the injector lines, hoses, etc., and in doing so, have lost much of the fuel to drainage. Am now in the process of ... hopefully ... getting 'stuff' reinstalled soon, and realize will have to go thru much of the same process being discussed in this thread. Did get my marine rubber pump bulb this past week, so will have that on hand when the day arrives.

But also, other items being mentioned are of interest as well. So keep posting ... really helpful to both of us 'newbie's !!

[Herrschildkrote]

Still not starting....what could I be missing?

I have spent a lot of time these past two days in the garage and still no breakthroughs. Like I stated before, I have replaced the fuel filter, oil, and air filter. I spent most of today working with fuel. The injectors are getting fuel and (taking 82vdub's advice) I drained the tank (only about 2 1/2 gallons of old fuel) and with several trips with a portable can, put 6 gallons of new diesel in the tank. When doing that, I also pumped out (with my Mityvac pump) the old fuel from the IP and fuel filter and replaced with new diesel. Still no luck.

I did a quick run down of electricals but couldn't find anything there. The engine seems to be cranking over quite quickly. I haven't gone too deep with the glow plugs yet besides confirm they are getting power. Since I am doing all of this in my 80 degree garage, could some bad glow plugs still be preventing it from starting?

I was also wondering if it may have to do with the IP settings. According to the previous owner, the owner before him had the IP rebuilt and there are some yellow paint marks showing that the adjustments have not changed since. Should i delve into the settings of the IP?

Does anyone have any other ideas? I really don't know where to go from here.

[82vdub]

If you cracked the injectors and you're getting fuel coming out when cranking, the starting issue would tend to point to a timing issue, or glow plug issue. Of course, low compression can also play into the mix too, if you don't know what those numbers are. If the car has a block heater, I'd plug that in for a couple hours then try it. That pretty much takes out any glow plug issue.

[bscutt]

Agreed I would recheck all timing for starters. Also pull each glow plug and I use jumper cables to connect each one to the battery (be careful, lots of current here!) and watch it glow. rewiring the glow plugs per the sticky on this forum makes this much easier as you can pull each wire for each plug and see if it pulls current. Timing info simplified below:

wrote this up a while back:
Get the flywheel mark lined up to the timing mark, the cam lined up (both
number 1 lobes pointing up and the flat line at the other end of the cam
perfectly parallel with the head) and the pump lined up such that the groove in the back side of the pump pulley and the line on the pump body line up roughly with the line on the pump mounting bracket. If you can get the belt on and the tensioner snugged up and still maintain all those marks in alignment, you should be good. From there you can use the dial gauge tool or hillbilly tuning to get it timed just right. Prefill the pump with ATF or
clean diesel fuel through the "out" bolt hole on the pump to speed up the
whole priming exercise. Loosen the fuel lines at the injectors and crank
until fuel comes out of each line, tightening those fittings back down as
fuel appears at each fitting.

Before cranking the engine with the starter, rotate it by hand clockwise
(looking at the crank pulley end) to make sure nothing is hitting due to
misaligned cam timing.

[tim0574]

I just picked up an 1981 Rabbit Diesel C myself last week. I'm pretty jazzed about mine. It's the 3rd diesel I've bought and the most road worthy and in quite good shape.

I first picked up an 82 caddy that had cab rust through but a rebuilt engine. Some of the rebuild stuff was a bit sloppy though. The cab was a bit snug for my size unless I took the seat back off. I decided to sell it on eBay after I ran across a cheap near by 82 hatchback. That one had a completely worn out engine, leaking injection pump and leaking fuel tank. That has been partially disassembled in my garage for some time now.

The Saturday before last someone listed an 81 Rabbit hatchback on Craigslist, listed a gaggle of fresh parts and it even had a fully heated veggie system installed. He has bought himself a newer TDI Jetta wagon off eBay and was now moving toward making his own biodiesel since he couldn't run the Jetta on the veggie setup he had in the garage. Great setup too. He had a huge 500 gallon plastic tank on a homebuilt steel stand, a drum to filter the crunchy bits from the oil, a Harbor freight pump to push it through a culligan 20 micron filter, a water filter, a 5 micron culligan filter and then into the tank. The output is a gas pump style hose and handle on the tank.

The car had a lot done last fall. New injection pump, glow plugs, injectors, , wiper motor, brakes, struts, strut mounts, cd player, snow tires and clutch. The car came from a barn so it didn't have the exposure to too much rust and rot in Wisconsin. The floor is solid except for an piece of reinforcement under the rear bolt for the front seat but no softness or rust through around it. He undercoated most of it. The veggie system was all self done with friends as they have similar setups.

They used a 5 gallon marine tank in the back. It was cut open to build the stainless steel coils and welded shut with extra fittings for everything. Full hose in hose to the front. A nice clean setup with a pump and typical solenoid switchover. There's a shut off valve for the veggie coolant system should it ever spring a leak.

I called as early as I thought to be polite the next day and looked at it several hours later. I was the second looker, the first guy didn't want to make any rash decisions. What a bad move. The seller was asking less than half of what I see vegged diesels sell for on eBay.

I tested the veg system once so far and it works nice. Didn't smell like french fries though. Overall the car should have a range of 650-700 miles or more.

There is no heat coming out the dash though, just cold air. The lines going into and out the heater core get hot, the car temp gauge is working fine so I can tell it's warm. I can't be sure the heat/cool valve in the heater core line is working right but I can't figure out why no heat yet unless it uses a blend door and that cable is broken. The blower works great though it's been rewired to a knob since the high low switch is dead.

I don't think the guy understood the motor much. He thought the rusty exhaust was a big deal. It's not leaking so the surface rust is probably normal. He thought the exhaust had a catalytic on it which it does not. It's a resonator. He said it had trouble starting in the cold. He's right but that's because the glow plug circuit isn't doing anything right now. No buzz, no light and based on difficulty starting, no glow. He also pumped the pedal to start it and told me to hold the pedal down to get it going which I doubt would help at all.

Once I get the heat sorted out and fix the seat to slide back further, it's going to be a nice little runner.

[82vdub]

Here's an excellent way to determine if the glow plugs glow.......

[Herrschildkrote]

82vdub - that is a good point. I'll check out the glow plugs when I get home. I have already ordered the tractor solenoid and fuse block from NAPA. After reading the glow plug sticky and Vince Waldon's site a few weeks ago, I decided to pimp the glow plugs regardless of condition but was hoping to do so later rather than sooner. I need to get a few other parts (rear hatch strut, bentley, etc) so I may just order new glow plugs and keep any good old ones as spares.

[82vdub]

I'd recommend buying only Bosch glow plugs, or the brand that Jack (owner of this forum) sells. I think Mehle? You buy cheaper one's now, you'll be putting good one's in within 6 months.

You also need to replace the heat shields at the bottom of the injectors, if you loosen or remove them. You can recondition a heat shield for reuse, but I just buy new one's and be done with it. While you're that far into it, buy injector nozzles and rebuild your injectors to start fresh.

[Herrschildkrote]

Success!! She lives!

Thanks to everyone for the suggestions. It looks like the glow plugs are the problem. I had a roommate plug in the block heater while I was at work, came home, and with a few cranks she started up.

I do still have a few questions. At what temp (coolant) should the rabbit stop smoking? I know that when the cold start is out, they will probably smoke for a few minutes but what is the driving procedure for that. My Rabbit ran with the cold start plunger out but was smoking a whitish blue smoke the whole time. I let her idle for about 5 minutes then drove her about a half mile. When I got home, she would run (roughly) with the cold start in but was still smoking. The coolant temp sensor read one notch below half. I know I this may be a stupid question but if this is abnormal, I would like to know so I can look at other issues before I make the Rabbit a daily driver.

Second, is there a way to replace the glow plugs without taking the IP out? It looks like I may be able to make the glow plug switch but the two cylinders closest to the passenger side may be too tight. I have yet to get my Bentley so sorry for the second dumb question. On that note - what does everyone think of switching my Rabbit over to "fast" glow plugs. I was planning on getting my Bentley from German Auto Parts seeing as they have the best deal I can find but when I called today, they said they do not have the "slow" glow plugs and they haven't had them for years. I don't mind waiting for the slow glows but if they are becoming difficult to find (according to the FLAPS as well), they I'll go with the fast.

[82vdub]

If it smokes whitish/bluish smoke, the timing is probably retarded a bit. I'd try advancing the pump a bit to see if that helps.

Your 81 likely has fast glow plugs in it. Even if it doesn't, if you get new fast glow plugs and a fast glow plug relay, you'll have a fast glow plug system.

Some have been successful at changing the glow plugs without removing the hard injector lines, but I don't see how. If you remove the injector lines, the glow plugs are very easily removed without taking out the IP. Getting #1 and #2 glow plugs back in is somewhat of a task, but definately doable without removing the IP.

[doonboggle]

Standing in front of vehicle, with timing belt on my left, what is 'advance' versus 'retard' ... relative to the fixed mark on the mounting bracket? In other words, if you push the pump back toward the engine-firewall, is that advance or retard?

Second, is blue-white smoke bad ... relative to dark common diesel exhaust? Seems that if not black, the fuel is all being combusted.

I recall in doing tune-ups on 1950's chevrolets, that when one had a white exhaust pipe, this was good ... and was getting full combustion, rather than raw gas out of the pipe.
Thanks

If it smokes whitish/bluish smoke, the timing is probably retarded a bit. I'd try advancing the pump a bit to see if that helps.

Your 81 likely has fast glow plugs in it. Even if it doesn't, if you get new fast glow plugs and a fast glow plug relay, you'll have a fast glow plug system.

Some have been successful at changing the glow plugs without removing the hard injector lines, but I don't see how. If you remove the injector lines, the glow plugs are very easily removed without taking out the IP. Getting #1 and #2 glow plugs back in is somewhat of a task, but definately doable without removing the IP.

[rabbit_man]

Pushing it towards the head advances the timing.

Meyle GP's = junk, they last me about a year. Bosch duraterms are the way to go.

[82vdub]

Second, is blue-white smoke bad ... relative to dark common diesel exhaust? Seems that if not black, the fuel is all being combusted.

In general terms, any smoke is a sign of something that isn't quite running correct, except for a few situations (cold starts), engine modifications etc. Blue/whitish smoke is usually poor combusted diesel fuel and that's incomplete combustion leading to wasted energy.

I recall in doing tune-ups on 1950's chevrolets, that when one had a white exhaust pipe, this was good ... and was getting full combustion, rather than raw gas out of the pipe.

The white residue on tailpipes disappeared when the lead was removed from the fuel. You're correct that it was a sign of proper engine combustion, but it is something that's not been seen for many years with the changes in fuels 30+ years ago.