I'm removing the injectors from my newly aquired 81 Caddy. I am unable to break the #2 injector free. Searched the forum and found that Hagar uses an impact wrench on stubborn injectors. Others say do not use an impact wrench. I've soaked the injector threads with PB blaster and am letting it sit overnight. I'll try again with the breaker bar tomorrow. Seems to me that an impact wrench, used sparingly, should be ideal. It puts minimal side load on the threads - torque only. Just have to be careful not to strip threads. Anyone have any advice?
Tony B
81 Dasher 1.6na ( on the road )
81 Caddy ( in the shop )
injector removal problem
Moderator: Fatmobile
sounds like you're doing it right ....
if it's tight coming out, do not try to back it all the way out in one shot....
lube , loosen then tighten a bit (one step forwards 2 steps back) ... lube and repeat. similar to tapping a thread....
If you must use a breaker bar, make sure you always pull or push TOWARDS the block ... else you may break the casting around the injector...
if it's tight coming out, do not try to back it all the way out in one shot....
lube , loosen then tighten a bit (one step forwards 2 steps back) ... lube and repeat. similar to tapping a thread....
If you must use a breaker bar, make sure you always pull or push TOWARDS the block ... else you may break the casting around the injector...
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Quantum-man
- Turbo Charger
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Impact is good, if you have it, but I'd want to stop at first sign of movement, then revert to a 'T' bar with 2 wheel wrenches, and back and forth.
A swivel joint at the bottomn will remove adverse leverage
A swivel joint at the bottomn will remove adverse leverage
"I'm not here to help... I'm here to Pro-Volke"
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Be like meeee...Drive a Quantum TD
...The best work-horse after the cart...
Quantae grow on you...but Rabbits are like roses...
... girls like em ;o)
Only one Darwin, Einstein, Poe and Verne.
That is why if you listen, you will learn:
From the one and only Quantum-man,
Who sees the worms from outside of the can.
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doonboggle
- Cetane Booster
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Not done this ... yet ...
With " .... pull or push TOWARDS the block ...", having trouble understanding the concept; since they are in the way they are. Mind expanding just a bit please
Thanks
With " .... pull or push TOWARDS the block ...", having trouble understanding the concept; since they are in the way they are. Mind expanding just a bit please
Thanks
joat wrote:If you must use a breaker bar, make sure you always pull or push TOWARDS the block ... else you may break the casting around the injector...
1981 Rabbit diesel 1.6L pickup
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1971 Karman Ghia convertible
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coke
I don't think the posts on which way to push or pull on the injector are clear here. You want to push or pull on the wrench in the direction towards the head. If you pull or push on the wrench towards the front of the motor, there's a force exerted on the injector boss that sticks out from the head. If enough force is pushed on it, it will crack. There are pics on this forum of cracked injector bosses. This ruins a head. Someone here even mentioned about pushing or pulling inline with the head. The impact is a nice tool - no twisting motion, only turning motion. I would tent to go very slow with this method and lube as mentioned.
My mechanic also uses parafin wax to loosen parts. He heats them up and melts wax to let it work itself into the threads. It's like copper pipe soldering. You may have to do it several times over a period of time, but enough wax should wick in there to drastically lessen the torque it takes to remove them. I always use anti-sieze on anything I bolt into aluminum. No questions asked on that one.
My mechanic also uses parafin wax to loosen parts. He heats them up and melts wax to let it work itself into the threads. It's like copper pipe soldering. You may have to do it several times over a period of time, but enough wax should wick in there to drastically lessen the torque it takes to remove them. I always use anti-sieze on anything I bolt into aluminum. No questions asked on that one.
Everybody else lists their cars here - but not me.
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Quantum-man
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As I see it, pushing towards the head is better than pulling away, but surely 'better' is to push, or pull along the head.82vdub wrote:I don't think the posts on which way to push or pull on the injector are clear here. You want to push or pull on the wrench in the direction towards the head. If you pull or push on the wrench towards the front of the motor, there's a force exerted on the injector boss that sticks out from the head. If enough force is pushed on it, it will crack. There are pics on this forum of cracked injector bosses. This ruins a head. Someone here even mentioned about pushing or pulling inline with the head. The impact is a nice tool - no twisting motion, only turning motion. I would tent to go very slow with this method and lube as mentioned.
My mechanic also uses parafin wax to loosen parts. He heats them up and melts wax to let it work itself into the threads. It's like copper pipe soldering. You may have to do it several times over a period of time, but enough wax should wick in there to drastically lessen the torque it takes to remove them. I always use anti-sieze on anything I bolt into aluminum. No questions asked on that one.
None is better than pure angular torque.
Air tool is good, but maybe hard to control the applied power.
The swivvel joint eliminates leverage as far as I can see.
Coupled with extended 'T' bar gives both control and pure torque.
"I'm not here to help... I'm here to Pro-Volke"
Be like meeee...Drive a Quantum TD
...The best work-horse after the cart...
Quantae grow on you...but Rabbits are like roses...
... girls like em ;o)
Only one Darwin, Einstein, Poe and Verne.
That is why if you listen, you will learn:
From the one and only Quantum-man,
Who sees the worms from outside of the can.
7 Quantae in 20 years; 4 dead and 3 TD's still alive [2 wagons & 1 fastback] oh and a GTD)
Be like meeee...Drive a Quantum TD
...The best work-horse after the cart...
Quantae grow on you...but Rabbits are like roses...
... girls like em ;o)
Only one Darwin, Einstein, Poe and Verne.
That is why if you listen, you will learn:
From the one and only Quantum-man,
Who sees the worms from outside of the can.
7 Quantae in 20 years; 4 dead and 3 TD's still alive [2 wagons & 1 fastback] oh and a GTD
)What I meant was you push or pull on the wrench in the direction towards the head. When you push or pull is dependant on which direction your moving the injector - installing or removing.Quantum-man wrote:As I see it, pushing towards the head is better than pulling away, but surely 'better' is to push, or pull along the head.
Everybody else lists their cars here - but not me.
I have too many to count
I have too many to count
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hagar
- Hillbilly Tuner
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Removing Injectors.
TonyB and ALL : NEVER - NEVER use breaker bar if you have an impact wrench . hagar knows a tight when he meets one. . "Newly acquired" is the key word. If it had said "hagar installed" ? no need for breaker bars or impact , they will be covered in metal lube..
For a tightie I use a low torque ELECTRIC impact with a light dimmer to go gentle.. And like joat said in and out many times if needed. good ideas ? Marks universal . Heat and Wax and hammering injector in (Use Soft) with hammer..
More important ? use your own Ideas. and learn..
hagar.
PS: if you need more details ? just ask.
For a tightie I use a low torque ELECTRIC impact with a light dimmer to go gentle.. And like joat said in and out many times if needed. good ideas ? Marks universal . Heat and Wax and hammering injector in (Use Soft) with hammer..
More important ? use your own Ideas. and learn..
hagar.
PS: if you need more details ? just ask.
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Quantum-man
- Turbo Charger
- Posts: 2085
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What we all mean, is don't apply a force that is pushing the top of the injector away from the head, irrelevent whether or not you[one] is pulling away from the head or pushing away from the head...82vdub wrote:What I meant was you push or pull on the wrench in the direction towards the head. When you push or pull is dependant on which direction your moving the injector - installing or removing.Quantum-man wrote:As I see it, pushing towards the head is better than pulling away, but surely 'better' is to push, or pull along the head.
"I'm not here to help... I'm here to Pro-Volke"
Be like meeee...Drive a Quantum TD
...The best work-horse after the cart...
Quantae grow on you...but Rabbits are like roses...
... girls like em ;o)
Only one Darwin, Einstein, Poe and Verne.
That is why if you listen, you will learn:
From the one and only Quantum-man,
Who sees the worms from outside of the can.
7 Quantae in 20 years; 4 dead and 3 TD's still alive [2 wagons & 1 fastback] oh and a GTD)
Be like meeee...Drive a Quantum TD
...The best work-horse after the cart...
Quantae grow on you...but Rabbits are like roses...
... girls like em ;o)
Only one Darwin, Einstein, Poe and Verne.
That is why if you listen, you will learn:
From the one and only Quantum-man,
Who sees the worms from outside of the can.
7 Quantae in 20 years; 4 dead and 3 TD's still alive [2 wagons & 1 fastback] oh and a GTD
)it is probably too late as the other injectors are out but if you can warm the engine first, it seems to help soften the gunk that binds. some of that stuff is glass hard when cold but softens nicely at warm temps.
alternatively, plug the block heater in and hit the injector with a propane torch or heat gun. get the block area around the injector warm as that is where the stick-tion is occurring.
i'm sure you'll put anti-seize on when installing but it is amazing how low a torque they are spec'd at... 51 ft lbs. just a bit over snug so they are not held in by anything but carbonized material when they are stuck. as others have mentioned, loosen a bit and then tighten-loosen in steps to get a bit more thread loose. i had to do this on a recent injector swap where they'd been in only 8k miles but had been leaking veg oil. that stuff plasticizes nasty bad.
-dan
alternatively, plug the block heater in and hit the injector with a propane torch or heat gun. get the block area around the injector warm as that is where the stick-tion is occurring.
i'm sure you'll put anti-seize on when installing but it is amazing how low a torque they are spec'd at... 51 ft lbs. just a bit over snug so they are not held in by anything but carbonized material when they are stuck. as others have mentioned, loosen a bit and then tighten-loosen in steps to get a bit more thread loose. i had to do this on a recent injector swap where they'd been in only 8k miles but had been leaking veg oil. that stuff plasticizes nasty bad.
-dan
'91 Jetta NA on WVO for 120k miles
'91 Jetta ECO
'91 Jetta ECO
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Fatmobile
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If you plan to do a compression test once they are out,
it might be better to heat the engine up good before removing.
So you can get a warm compression measurement.
I had a stuck glow plug or something on the front of the head.
I decided to heat it.
It started leaking coolant at the head gasket,
sealed back up when it cooled down.
I don't heat small areas of the head with a propane torch anymore.
That vegy does make something akin to polyurethane when it dries/hardens/bakes.
I'm doing some accidental undercoating experiments with veg oil.
it might be better to heat the engine up good before removing.
So you can get a warm compression measurement.
I had a stuck glow plug or something on the front of the head.
I decided to heat it.
It started leaking coolant at the head gasket,
sealed back up when it cooled down.
I don't heat small areas of the head with a propane torch anymore.
That vegy does make something akin to polyurethane when it dries/hardens/bakes.
I'm doing some accidental undercoating experiments with veg oil.
'91 Golf gasser converted to a 12mm pump, M-TDI.
'84 1.6TD Rabbit with a VNT-15 turbo, still setup to run on vegetable oil.
'84 GTI with 1.7TD pistons and intercooled.
2003 TDI wagon
2000 TDI Jetta.
'84 1.6TD Rabbit with a VNT-15 turbo, still setup to run on vegetable oil.
'84 GTI with 1.7TD pistons and intercooled.
2003 TDI wagon
2000 TDI Jetta.