Too many problems

[Jordan]

Well I picked up my first Diesel the other day. A 1981 Rabbit Truck LX. I traded the guy for my 1997 Jetta 2.0 that I had about $1100 into and he gave me $100 on top of that.

It started and ran great but was missing the coolant overflow cap. I took it for a short test drive and it ran good but coolant started to boil over because of no cap. We topped it off then he checked out my Jetta to give it time to cool. For the price I decided to risk it and pick it up there on the spot before someone else got to it. He threw in an extra 1.6 longblock with injection pump in unknown condition and a canopy that I already sold for $100.

So I got to autozone as quick as I could hoping that it wouldn't overheat and it did get a little over halfway up on the temp gauge but not too bad. I added water and went in to see what I could get for a cap. Of coarse they didn't have one that fit perfect but we got an old Jeep cherokee cap to fit and I was driving home. It drove great good power for the little diesel and the temp stayed just below halfway. Supposedly the engine was rebuilt 7 years ago and now that I have had it all apart I believe that. So right as I was pulling into my driveway the temp started getting hot and almost hit the red. I shut it off and coasted to a park at my house. The cap had started leaking so I added more water. The next day I got a factory cap for it and started it up and drove around. The starter went out and wasn't getting out to the flywheel so I bought a rebuilt one and a new battery as it had a small one in it. They gave me a gas starter at first so I had to wait another day to get the diesel.

Then I realized I had problems. I tried to turn it over and click. It started after a second so hoping for the best I took it for a drive and shut if off and it started right back up so I went and got some food. After sitting about 30 minutes it hydro locked again so I knew that from overheating it and by my coolant tank getting so much action that I had coolant leaking into my cylinder. Turns out that it was the #1 cylinder and I had a bent rod so I took that off of a spare engine at my house (my landlord is into these vw diesels) and everything else looked good so I just replaced that rod got a new head gasket and 12mm stretch bolts and started putting it back together.

So as I was torquing down my head one of my bolts wasn't getting up to the 55 ft pounds that my book said before tty. So I tried to back that bolt out and it was stuck. I tried everything to get that bolt out before I just took the head back off and realized that the washer was too big and was what had gotten stuck. I ended up having to hit it out with a hammer but the washer was so stuck in the head that the bolt threads just pushed through it and I had to pry the washer out with the bolt.

Because I didn't get the head bolts even up to 55 ft lbs yet I tried to reuse the bolts and head gasket. I had to grind down the washers on 2 of the bolts though so they would fit in the head. It must have been a 1.5L head that was drilled out to fit the 12mm bolts of the 1.6L and 2 of the washer holes weren't drilled out far enough for the 12 mm washers.
So I got it all back together and Only torqued it to about 55 ft lbs plus 1/4 plus about another 1/8 as that was when I found the other torque specs of 44 ft lbs plus 1/4 plus 1/4 then another 1/4 when warm then 1/4 after 1000. Started it up and sure enough the washer had cracked the head. It smoked pretty good which it didn't do at all before. I could see that right by the washer that got stretched out the head was cracked up near the top top and when I started it up and took the valve cover back off I could see that the crack spread and was above the water inlet on the block.

I then went to pull the head off the spare engine that I had gotten but got the valve cover off and there was a crack that was filled with some weird epoxy on the upper part of the head so I figured I didn't want to mess with that. I ended up buying a dirty used 1.6 head and taking all the components out of my cracked head to put into it as everything in my cracked head looked brand new. Lapped the valves in, got the tappets all adjusted to specs and ready to go.

So I bought another new head gasket and another set of bolts and started torquing them down to the 44 ft lbs plus 1/4 plus 1/4. I put a little bit of anti-seize on the threads as well and threaded a bolt down all of the holes and blew them out with compressed air to be sure they were clean. On the second 1/4 turn of bolt 1 and bolt 8 in the torque sequence I felt a stripping feeling. On the first one I was hopeful that it was the bolt yielding but on the 8th one It stripped the threads right at the beginning of the 1/4 turn. It was over 100 ft lbs when it stripped too and I had let the bolts sit 5-10 minutes between each torque to yeild cycle. So what the heck happened? It didn't seam like the bolts stretched at all. I'm not exactly sure how these stretch bolts work though. I did buy everything from a good vw shop Autosport Imports that I used way too much gas to drive up to and back. What are your suggestions on what to do with this matter? I'm pretty pissed and aggravated as I'm sure any of you would be too. I just want to start getting some good gas mileage already.

Thanks and sorry it was so long. I will be amazed if someone reads the whole thing.
Jordan

[hagar]

Jordan : read it all !.


hagar.

[Jordan]

Jordan : read it all !.


hagar.

Wow amazing. So what do you think? I might try to throw some heli coils or time serts in the block and see if they will hold but I don't think that I have the balls to torque this thing to spec now as these bolts sure don't seam to stretch and just mess things up. If I could get arp head studs locally or quickly I would but I want to get this thing back together and driving before the weekend if thats at all possible. The dang thing will probably fight back though and throw another problem my way.

[Jordan]

Heres a few pictures. The truck is extremely rust free and in pretty good shape. It was super dirty when I got it and the interior was all nasty and mildew infested of coarse from the common water leak onto the fusebox. A new windshield will be going in after she is going down the road trouble free. The tailgate and bed are in the worst condition out of anything body wise on the truck.


Heres the washer stuck in the hole in the head. The washer was tapered too so the bottom of the washer fit in the hole and the top was bigger so it stretched it out. You can see the start of one of the cracks here.

And here with oil on it you can see how the crack continued towards the water jacket thats between cylinders 3 and 4

I haven't taken any pictures of the new head I assembled or anything after that yet. Oh heres a picture of my bent rod.

[Quantum TD]

Regarding the stripped block:

Causes: I would never use anti-seize on head bolts. Too much lubrication. Though your torque wrench may have been reading 100 ft-lbs, it was likely much more than that. You only need some wd-40 on the bolts to torque them in place.

I'm sure when you torqued those 12mm bolts and washers down the 1st time into that 11mm head, you weakened the threads. You have to think about it this way, if the shoulder of the washer was caught on the lip in the head, the bolt will not go down enough into the block to bite. So, all the stress is on the upper threads. A few threads can only handle so much torque.

Solution: Try to torque the head down with helicoils and the old bolts. If it holds, then pull it apart, get a new gasket, and do it again. I'd hate to see you blow money on a solution that didn't work.

Or, try head studs. You won't be wasting your money as you can reuse them over and over again, or sell them if you junk the project. Head studs thread deeper into the block, so you'll have more meat to work with to take all the torque. I'd do helicoils with head studs and see what happens. Be sure to CHASE the old threads before you put anything into the holes. Clean them out with brake cleaner, and then blow them out with rags over the holes so the cleaner doesn't get airborne and hit you in the eye. Then insert the Helicoils and studs. I'd feel confident with that solution. You'd be able to drive it and look for a replacement block in the meantime. It sounds like the guy you bought from was a real $shithead cheap-o. I doubt anything that he included with the sale is worth a shit.

[Jordan]

Yeah I was thinking afterwards that it might be too much lubrication. I should stop listening to people on the internet. haha.

And the 12 mm bolts went down just as far in the threads with both heads. There were the two that the washers got hung up but only 1 of them was sucked down and the threads that stripped were different than the ones where the washers had gotten stuck. So it was probably overtorque from the bolts being so lubed.

I borrowed a friends helicoil set today but I couldn't get any longer inserts than the ones that are a little bit over half an inch that it came with from any stores locally. I am waiting to see if they can get me some of the longer inserts so that I don't have to try to stack these or spend big money on time serts.

I think the threads had enough bite even though the shoulder of the washer got stuck on that one bolt. It looks like 1/2 an inch was already threaded into the block before it started to get hung up on the washer.

So on the head studs. I do want to get some but I am not seeing a difference between pn 204-4701 and pn 204-4706 besides the price. They both say they are 8740 alloy and everything reads the same. Would I be just fine with buying the cheaper 204-4701? I can't see any reason why not with the same specs. And $90 vs $160 is a pretty big difference.

Haha he may sound like a $hithead but I still have faith in my fellow man, maybe a little too much though... He did say that he didn't know the condition of the spare engine and it could be trash as far as he knew, he said someone just gave it to him. And it really seamed like he didn't know what to do when it started boiling over coolant from no cap. He told me to start it back up. haha. That wouldn't do anything but make it boil over more with not having the system pressurized.

Thanks for your help.

Jordan

Regarding the stripped block:

Causes: I would never use anti-seize on head bolts. Too much lubrication. Though your torque wrench may have been reading 100 ft-lbs, it was likely much more than that. You only need some wd-40 on the bolts to torque them in place.

I'm sure when you torqued those 12mm bolts and washers down the 1st time into that 11mm head, you weakened the threads. You have to think about it this way, if the shoulder of the washer was caught on the lip in the head, the bolt will not go down enough into the block to bite. So, all the stress is on the upper threads. A few threads can only handle so much torque.

Solution: Try to torque the head down with helicoils and the old bolts. If it holds, then pull it apart, get a new gasket, and do it again. I'd hate to see you blow money on a solution that didn't work.

Or, try head studs. You won't be wasting your money as you can reuse them over and over again, or sell them if you junk the project. Head studs thread deeper into the block, so you'll have more meat to work with to take all the torque. I'd do helicoils with head studs and see what happens. Be sure to CHASE the old threads before you put anything into the holes. Clean them out with brake cleaner, and then blow them out with rags over the holes so the cleaner doesn't get airborne and hit you in the eye. Then insert the Helicoils and studs. I'd feel confident with that solution. You'd be able to drive it and look for a replacement block in the meantime. It sounds like the guy you bought from was a real $shithead cheap-o. I doubt anything that he included with the sale is worth a shit.

[vanbcguy]

Can't comment on part numbers but the head studs would be a great way to go, even if you DON'T helicoil. There's probably a fair bit of meat left on the lower parts of the bolt holes, MIGHT be enough for the studs to grab. Problem is once you commit to the heli's all chances of reusing the stock threads are gone. Also if you can avoid the chance of driving shavings and things through the engine, why not eh?

If it were me:

#1. Try the studs...
#2. Heli the studs...
#3. Block replacement

The body on the truck looks pretty fantastic at least from an internet distance! I would love to have a Caddy...

[Jordan]

I would guess from measuring that there is half an inch of good threads left in the block. It would sure be nice if the threads went all the way to the top of the block. Oh and $90 for the headbolts looks like it was for a gasser so $124 vs $160. I wonder if about half an inch could really be enough?

Oh and the body is truly great. Haven't found any rust at all yet of coarse there are door dings and the such but it shocks me how straight this Caddy is. Original paint is in pretty good shape too besides the oxidized hood and roof. The bed however has been used like a truck and then some. I don't know what they did. And its on its second tailgate. Soon to be its 3rd as I just picked one up that Is more worth fixing up than the one that is on it.

[coke]

I use anti-seize on 12mm bolts _all the time_. I haven't done a head gasket without using it. Copper anti-seize from Napa. I lube the entire bolt. The torque spec for 12mm is 2 different numbers, 1/2 turn, warm up, 1/4 turn, drive 1000 miles, another 1/4 turn.

The guy I learned head gasket replacement procedures from has been a diesel mechanic for 30+ years. He's worked on all the popular ones. VW, Mercedes, GM, etc. He did the head gasket on my 84 Jetta, used the old bolts, anti-seized them all, and just modified the torque procedure slightly since they were pre-stretched. The gasket lasted 200k miles. Blew when the lower radiator hose burst and the engine over heated.

The service manager he worked under for 20 years uses the same procedure. No reported issues. So, I would use anti-seize, but to each their own I suppose.

[Jordan]

Hey Coke do you start at 44 ft lbs and then do the half turn? Thats what I did but just in two 1/4 turns. Then stripped.

[coke]

I can't remember, I think its 33 lbs, 55 lbs, then I do a 1/4 turn on each bolt in sequence, then another 1/4 turn. Warm up, another 1/4 turn, drive 1k miles, another 1/4 turn.

The torque values may be different. I read them from the Bentley before I do the procedure.

[DanHoug]

with the copper antisneeze on the head bolts, do they grab and make death sounds or is it a smooth torque process?

-dan

[Jordan]

with the copper antisneeze on the head bolts, do they grab and make death sounds or is it a smooth torque process?

-dan

No death sounds just completely smooth. I've been driving it around for a bit over a week now. I don't know how many miles cause the odometer broke at just before 300,000 miles about 10 years ago and I haven't fixed it yet but I have gone through about half a tank of diesel so far. The gauge sure stays on 3/4 of a tank for a long time too? haha