New head gaskets are fun!

[mogwopjr]

Many thanks to everyone that contributes to the amazing wealth of information contained on this site.

I purchased an 82 caddy a couple of years ago and late last year I fired it up for the first time. Much smoke, and fixing the electrical grounds found that she ran like a champ. The PO (seriously no matter how much you want to trust them DON'T!) 17 years ago, replaced the head gasket. He sold it because he didn't drive it but said that it had trouble getting too hot and the radiator leaked. A little investigating later finds a leaky head gasket again (immediate pressure in the expansion tank) because of the pressure in the system and a faulty expansion tank cap that wont release pressure, I'm pretty sure it caused the leaky radiator and leaky hoses.

Head gasket time! I get everything torn apart and find that on this wonderful 1.6na there are 11mm bolts. Now I swear up and down that when I looked into the valve cover oil cap hole that I KNOW I saw 12mm bolts in there. I know it! Maybe I was really hopeful that they were 12mm and so I saw what I hoped to see, but alas they are truly 11mm. I find all this out Friday night at 1800 so there is little hope that I can do much about it. I already have the 12mm studs in hand and I am pretty sure I'm going to now drag this project out for another week.

That was last night. Today I find one place in the entire valley that is
a) open and
b) able to get 11mm studs!

YEAAAA! Now I'm off to the garage to make it all happy again. Without this forum I would be struggling much more than I normally do. More than anything I just want to say thank you to all the owner and to the all contributors on this site.

Travis

Edit:
Here's a question, searching this forum there are differing opinions on torque for ARP 11mm studs. The paper from ARP advises 80 ft/lbs - search on forum suggests 90 ft/lbs and some posts have indicated higher still. I have not seen a clear answer yet. Any input?

[82vdub]

Make sure the head deck is flat and not warped, and the same with the head. If it's had two head gaskets (second by you), something may be up with that. Also look for cracks from the previous 11mm head bolt tightening.

[Quantum TD]

As noted above: the cracks in the block usually occur on the rear (firewall side) 2 corner bolt holes. If they're cracked, it's game over obviously.

As for pressure buildup: if you get it back together and running properly, be sure to check the overflow tank with the cap off and the car running. There should be coolant blowing thru the return hose at all times. It should be a steady stream, or at least a trickle. If nothing comes out, then the return hose and/or radiator is clogged. Clean it out (or better yet, replace the hose).

I've seen some $hitheads break the nipple off the radiator, and then cap if off and expect the system to flow. NOT QUITE.

I'd do a Water pump and T-stat (Whaler is the only brand I trust) while you're in there too.

[mogwopjr]

The PO's headgasket lasted 17 years and this is my first head gasket job ever. If it warped I would think it happened recently with the near over heating action. That would make my day unhappier since it would make the 2nd warped 1.6 head in my possession. I had a spare engine I was going to use for parts and it turned out to be a POS.

I'm gratefull for the input. Adding all those to the checklist. Thanks for the heads up on frequent offender cracks.

The nipple on the radiator was intact. However since the old rad was hemmoraging so its time to put in a spare. I need to pressure test the new(old) one first. Before I started the work the radiator was spurting coolant out the little hole. kind of like a beating heart

I have cleaned the deck and all the stud holes look great no problems there, I will find a straight edge from the machine shop and check it for warpage.

The head looks ok, its messy and I have not cleaned it all out to check the prev owners work for over-torque, he swore it was 12mm so right there might indicate a possible issue. Other than the fingernail cracks between valves all looks ok so far. It will be checked to make sure its true as well.

Water pump is off and waiting to be sealed up, new gasket/rings for that. New idler tension pully ready to go on as well. I had to build a tool/wrench for adjusting the tension and that was fun. Rebuilt injectors with heat shields and new glow plugs are also waiting to go on.

So far most of the time has been spent cleaning. No matter how much time I spent pressure washing that thing off before dissassembly its still NAAASTY!

- more questions
Is compressed air ok to clean the tops of the cylinders off before assembly? There are little bits of crud and coolant that dropped in on dissassembly. When I clean the head up, do I need to take the cam off and pre-re-lube the bearing surfaces? Or will it self lubricate on startup without issues?

I've rambled long enough,

Travis

[82vdub]

I use compressed air to clean out cylinders as best as possible before buttoning things up. Of course I try to direct the air etc to blow stuff out and away from the rings, instead of blowing it further down and into the rings. Who knows if what I do really has worked or not, but I haven't had issues after putting a motor together when I've done this.

[mogwopjr]

okee dokee! air it is.

Cleaned the head, had it checked at the machine shop, good to go there. There's some pitting on the head at cylinder 1 but nothing around gasket surface region. Is it safe to assume that the pitting is from the water getting into the cylinder?

No cracks in block, head or otherwise. Checked, checked again, changed lighting, took pictures and checked again, no cracks (except the ones between the valve seats).

Got a 11mm x 1.50 tap for the block, so once the stud holes are clean its back to gether with it. I have 6 hours tomorrow to work on it and get it done, hopefully I will be able to drive it to work

I know my subject line may have sounded scarcastic, but I am having a tonne of fun with this project. Its my first multi-cylinder diesel work and I find the whole thing fascinating.

[82vdub]

Did you buy a thread cutting tap, or a thread cleaning tap? There's a difference. If you bought a common thread cutting tap, you'll remove material from the threads in the block weakening what's left. If you bought a thread cleaning tap, that will remove debris from the existing threads, without removing thread material.

You can use an old bolt modified to remove debris from the threads you are chasing. You can see the vegenator's thread chasing tool that he made here: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=10723&start=30

I've also seen where someone cuts a thin groove perpendicular to the threads (directly up the shaft) of an old bolt, then take a die and re-cut the threads on the bolt to remove the ridge left from cutting the groove and use that to clean out the threads. That just allows a space for the junk to build up and be extracted with the bolt when it's removed.

[mogwopjr]

ooooh! its a thread cutting tap. My friend has a machine shop and he let me borrow it. I will modify the old head bolt in my pocket then, nice save thanks!

[mogwopjr]

Cleaning, cleaning. Rinse. Repeat.

Deck cleaned and checked all good. Cut grooves in some old head bolts to chase the threads in the block. Everything turned out pretty and clean.

Had to take the intake off to get the head to fit over the studs gracefully. Man those studs make it easy, and... the head is on.

Exhaust clips on. Those are an un-fun experience. It definitely helps to have 2 people working on it.

Water pump sealed up wating for install. Intake put back on. Dropped one of the bolts and lost it. Got frustrated so we walked away for the day.

All in all it was a good slow low pressure day in the garage! (ATIS says wind 160 at 13 vis 10 temp 19 dewpoint 17 alt 2973)


After reading everything I could get my eyes on with this forum, some others too, there has not been any surprises and hope to get it fired up tomorrow.

[82vdub]

Make sure you rotate the engine with a wrench on the crank bolt at least two revolutions before using the key to turn the motor to make sure you didn't bugger up the timing between the crank and cam.

[mogwopjr]

Roger.

The timing belt is not on yet, we got frustrated looking for the missing intake bolt so we walked away. Tomorrow timing belt and pre-rotation to check.

Counterclockwise? Clockwise? I'm pretty sure I read it here or in the Bently, just asking to make sure.


The Lister diesel calls it anti-clockwise..

[82vdub]

You want to turn the crank bolt clockwise, standard rotation for the engine. The direction exerts a tightening rotation on the crank bolt, which is a bolt that you don't want to loosen unless you have to.

[mogwopjr]

Thank you 82vdub.
Counterclockwise on the injection pump bolt for the IP timing, and clockwise always on the main crank bolt.

Everything done yesterday, did not start it till this morning. Had to iron leaky bugs out before I wanted to turn it over with the starter. She runs like a champ!

Drove to work and she runs smoooth. Starts nice and quick, and with the new radiator while i'm moving it doesn't get above the 2nd mark. Just nudges the 2nd mark while at stop lights. No more pressure in the expansion tank!

Very happy overall. Thanks to this forum it all came together smoothly.

[82vdub]

Glad you got it done successfully.