Unstick pistons in Block that sat outside? How?

[Harry]

Aluminum melts at 1100 degrees F. Red Hot is about 1450* F Cast Iron melting point is +2000* F . Just a few bits of useless info.

I had a brother that had pistons stuck in an old Dodge truck he fired the torch got the neutral flame, stuck it in water to douse the flame, he rigged a tube to run into block through the plug and he activated the plug manually...........Didn't unstick the piston but it blew the head off and half the hood and none of us brothers have ever had pristine hearing since.

Dam! That's good!

Maybe get a little acetylene in there and fire off a plug somehow. Probably find the block and oneself in the next county, in pieces. Somebody would come by and say 'pull yourself together'.

Hmmm. Have to think about that.

[godsend789]

did not see any mention of it here so decided to chime in. i do remember something awhile ago about using something like baking soda and water and an iron rod with dc current.... but again i hardly remember. i believe i saw it on Sunday's power block stuff if u know what i am talking about. From what i can remember they needed to de-rust part of a car like a panel or a door or something and instead of grinding or sanding for many hours the talked about a process by which they filled up like a kiddy size swimming pool with water and i think baking soda then used a battery charger and a iron rod i remember that the part had one terminal and the iron rod had the other and supposedly the rust would jump or dissolve in this vat of stuff? but again i i don't remember but i do know what ever they did it took away all the rust and left only metal no rust at all and it took like maybe 12 hours?? the iron rod i do think was like shrunken after wards so they used a piece of re bar to start off. don't know if this helps but hopefully someone will let me know if they have heard of this and maybe next time someone needs to free up an engine the could use this.

[Harry]

gs789,

Hmmm. That's an idea. I guess it would be a form of electrolysis or such? I'll get into the old Chem. and physics books and scratch my head over it. May be a good idea. Isolating each cylinder might be an issue, but maybe not. The idea has me curious for sure.

I've soaked this thing for about 3 weeks now and nothing is getting to the ring area of the pistons apparently.

Thought provoking idea. Thanks, Harry

[godsend789]

np always tring to get an idea off and watching people run with it. so.. i managed to find all the info u need so i will list it let me know how it goes..
things u need:
1. dc battery charger
2. Rubbermaid tub for part
3. iron re bar 1 or more rods of it...no stainless steel !!!!! (makes poison if u use it)
4. Sodium Carbonate aka Arm & Hammer LAUNDRY Soda or DuPont's Pool Care pH Increaser is 100% sodium carbonate
5. Water
6. Some chains or steel wire to suspend the part in the solution no copper wire!!! that is no copper wire in the vat

1. Find a container big enough to hold your part, plus some room to spare for the electrodes (aka re- bar) - they must not touch the part for this to work.
2. Fill the container with water and add 1/3 to 1/2 cup sodium carbonate (aka, laundry soda, etc.) per every 5 gallons of water. Mix thoroughly.
3. Position the sacrificial electrodes around the edge of the container and clamp them in place so that you have at least 4" of electrode above the water to connect to. The more the merrier - this is essentially a "line of sight" process between the part and the electrodes.
4. If you use more than one electrode wire all of the electrodes together so they are, electrically speaking, one big electrode. Make sure all connections are on clean metal and sufficiently tight to work.
5. Suspend your part in the solution using the wire/chains so it is not touching the bottom and is not touching any electrodes. The part must be electrically connected to the support mechanism and not connected to the electrodes for this to work. (aka part hanging on chains and hooked up to electric cable no touch rods)
6. Attach the battery charger NEGATIVE lead to the part and the POSITIVE lead to the electrodes. Do not get this backwards! If you do, you'll use metal from your part to de-rust your electrodes instead of the other way around -the positive electrodes are sacrificial and will erode over time. That's how the water becomes iron-rich.
7. Double check everything to be sure the right things are touching, the wrong things are not touching, and the cables are hooked up correctly.
8. Turn on the power - plug in the charger and turn it on.
Within seconds you should see a large volume of tiny bubbles in the solution these are flammable!!!
The process is self-halting - when there is no more rust to remove, the reaction stops.
With this you should be able to completely remove all the rust from the block and best of all the is very cheap!!
and always let me know how it went -Kevin-

[Una]

Here's a video of that process: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NH9Cd-g23kw

[Harry]

GS789,

Good science, thank you.

Where I'm at right now we're clearing folks out because of the fires in AZ. are coming into NM, from here maybe 60-70 miles away still. Having wind gusts 40-50-ish mph this afternoon and no rain in sight. The crews are fighting, the copters and surry bombers are flying but it's pretty dicey right now and we're not really gaining on it today.

It'll be a while on the VW block.

Got to thinking about a container that I would have handy big enough for the block and the only thing I can think of right now is the wife's bathtub. Ummmm, the forest fires will someday go out, but I am told the fires of HELL are eternal. I wish she could think more creatively, next thing she'll want is shoes.

Oh well.

[Una]

Should be able to pick up a big rubbermaid tote that's big enough at the local walmart..

[Harry]

Should be able to pick up a big rubbermaid tote that's big enough at the local walmart..

Yeah Una,

You're right and they're not all that expensive. The only thing is the wife gained a lot of weight and I dunno whether she'll fit in the tote or not.

Gotta go now, friends are bringing their horses over to our field to get them away from the fire.

[Quantum-man]

I don't want to put a downer on this electrolysis idea, but as already mentioned , it is a line of site technique, and won't touch the problem even if the electrolyte reaches the rusted interface; which it won't as your finer solvents have failed anyway.

Try heating/cooling and pressing it out if thumping with a 2lb hammer is still failing.

Didn't your original engine just have a minor fault? I can't remember now, it's been so long

[Harry]

Took block to town very early this AM to a machine shop. He called and already has the last 2 pistons and rods out. He's vatting it and then magnafluxing to see if block is buildable. He'll let me know Friday which will be soon enough as we're all busy with these fires from Arizona, now in New Mexico.

Didn't your original engine just have a minor fault? I can't remember now, it's been so long

The original engine, which was overhauled at a different machine shop than the aforementioned, has been a pain in the azz since the work was done about 4 years ago. Ran good for 4000 miles or so then commenced blowing gobs of white smoke in lower gears and would get less in 4 and 5th. Got rebuilt IP and injectors from a Bosch shop. No change. Have retimed crank and cam and then IP, probably 5 or 6 times. Saturday the guy from the Bosch shop came to my place and timed it all up, he should know how. Same results. Oh, for the last month or so it has like a miss at idle and a ways off idle until it gets revved up to about 2000 rpms(a guess from the sound). I would compare it to a miss like in a gasoline engine. Loosened each injector line and they each seem to be getting fuel, at each injector. Still have the very heavy smoke.

Thinking about running a compression check again. Valve stem seals? H*LL I don't know.

[82vdub]

Probably not valve stem seals. The guides have to be pretty shot to let enough air past to really cause low compression. I'd run a compression check and see what that shows.

[Quantum-man]

The smoking sounds like faulty injector, or perhaps too retarded on the timing.
If pump internal pressure is low, then although perfectly functional, the dynamic advance could be lagging and so need more mm on the dial gauge. Compression could be the issue, but after the lack of smoke for mine when compression was really low, I'm not so sure...

Luckily for me my car has just passed it's annual inspection, and so will live for another year. Even the testers know me by 'the one with the noisy engine!'
Although I can't cure the piston to valve kissing, without head removal, I think it was quieter this year

[Harry]

Well ok, looks like I better do a compression test, assuming the forest fires stay abated and we don't get evacuated. Looks like they're finally gettin' it, winds have died down.

Question. On a gasser engine we used to do a "wet and dry" compression test to see whether the problem is in the top end or the bottom end, the possibility always being it could be both. On these diesels can this be done? How? Same way as on a gasser? You can't shoot very much "juice" into the cylinder because their isn't much volume to spare in there.

Thanks.

[Quantum-man]

Harry,
Personally, I'd just do a dry compression test. I don't think wet tests show much, as the valves rarely seat poorly, as long as you have at least half min shim gap, you are safe for a couple of years. Oil doesn't just fill ring gap, it fills piston to bore gap too and so will always show improvement IMO.

A pressure leakdown test might be better...

[Harry]

Q-man good points, both. In doing a leak down won't I need some sort of adaptor for the Injector hole? I don't have one, where would one get one I wonder? My local parts guy I just called to start search just said he's heard of leak down tests but he doesn't think they do them anymore and he's not going to look for anything. He also doesn't think VW or Mercedes ever really built a diesel.

Modify an old injector? I think a leak down would be a darned good thing to do.

When this engine is running I get no blow by coming out of the crank case, BUT out of the valve cover it blows a heck of a lot and it also blows out a few drops of oil. Any clues from that?