Towing Long-distances with towbars + VW resources in Philly

[the vegenator]

I'm fixin' to hook my Jetta up to a rental truck using tow bars, all four wheels down. I've towed shorter distances before, but never the 700+ miles I'm about to do. Just curious if anyone might have any tips or warnings about this type of thing.

Also, as I'll be taking up residence in Philadelphia, I'm interested to know if any other philadelphians might be reading this who have suggestions for VW shops, parts suppliers, or gear heads in the area. HIt me up if you got any tips!

[82vdub]

You may want to consider renting a tow dolley to pull the car with. I've never used a tow bar, but how do you connect this to the front of the car that has a (mostly) plastic bumper and maybe no factory tabs to connect the bar to? I purchased an old heavy duty commercial Ryder dolly years (read decades) ago when you could buy their surplus stuff and it's performed flawlessly. It holds the car to the dolly via the tires. No special needs to tow a car like this. I don't know how far (or if) you can back up with a tow bar, but with a tow dolley, it's not possible. Make sure any gas stations you'd pull into or parking lots, areas etc are sufficient size where you don't have to back up.

[bscutt]

I agree on that, I bought a used tow dolly a few years back and it's been worth it's weight in gold between moving unlicensed or project cars around and a few rescues of both son's cars. They are a few hundred pounds which adds to your towed weight but really pull well once you are moving. It saves tons of wear on the front axles, bearings, and transmission, the transmission being the biggest concern. If you could find some spare stubs from old front axles and pull out your front axles and replace them with properly torqued stubs, you could tow with a tow bar and not put any undue wear on the transmission, but that means some work when you reach your destination to put it back to drivable. Personally I'd look into renting a tow dolley or looking around for a decent used one. Mine was about $400 in good shape but you may have to look around a bit to find a decent one for that price. I have seen them as low as about $300 in this area but more commonly around $500-$700.

[the vegenator]

I looked into purchasing a tow dolly, and unfortunately I just can't afford one right now. To rent a set is $150, but I invested in the tow bars and lights years ago and haven't had a problem with them yet.

My experiences towing have been fine, and while I know this method puts extra miles on the tranny, I'm in a position where I'll just have to go with it now, with plenty of fair warning from others.

Edit: The plastic bumper cover comes off, and the two mounting brackets bolt on to the bumper. It looks and feels pretty solid enough to make me confident.

Wish me luck!

[82vdub]

If you've used your tow bar before on this car, then you know what you're in for.

[FineFrank]

You can protect the tranny by overfilling it a little; it's SOP on many towed "lifeboat" vehicles that are towed behind an RV.
Sorry, I'm too lazy to look up how much for you

[Fatmobile]

Maybe someone can confirm this,
I've heard towing the trany for a long time messes with it.

Something like it needs to be started every 200 miles or something.

The axles could be removed if you had spare axle stubs, or removed the ones from your axles and bolted them into the hubs.

[FineFrank]

I can't confirm it for your tranny, but damage to other manual transmissions from towing is common; that's why I suggested that you overfill it.
But you might be just fine unhitching the car and driving it a short distance to circulate the tranny oil.
Either way, I hope you have a safe trip, and no breakdowns.

[82vdub]

I know on older automatic transmissions they are damaged if the vehicle is towed with the drive wheels down. The reason for this is that the trans fluid pump is spun by the input shaft of the transmission. So, the pump spins when the engine is running. However, if the output shaft is spinning when it's being towed and the engine isn't running, then damage will occur if speeds are great enough or distances are long enough.

Manual transmissions are different. Our old style transmissions that use gear oil for lubrication rely on splashing of the fluid to coat the gears and lubricate the transmission. Towing with them spinning I don't believe is an issue, because the output shafts are spinning. I believe it's ok. Modern manual transmissions that use transmission fluid rely on a pump to pump the fluid around. I would suspect that the engine must be running to turn the pump, just like an auto transmission, but I don't know this for sure.

You may want to check with a mechanic or http://www.brokevw.com/. Someone here may know where the output bearings get their lubrication from in these transmissions. I believe the fluid is high enough to lubricate the output shafts, but I'm not 100% certain of this. I have never (thankfully) ever been inside a transmission to much more than a general fluid/filter change.

[joat]

its the gear surfaces ...."contact surfaces" mesh with proper contact under load ( forward movement by motor ) ......but when towed , the contact surface is on the back side of the gears and the contact surface is incorrect.. causing premature wear and eventually excessive slop between the gears ( can you spell gear whine?)

short distance towing at low speeds is fine ....
long distance high speeds will eventually cost you a manual transmission

automatics will foam and overheat the tranny fluid for the same reason ( no running pump to circulate the fluid to the rad for cooling )

[TylerDurden]

its the gear surfaces ...."contact surfaces" mesh with proper contact under load ( forward movement by motor ) ......but when towed , the contact surface is on the back side of the gears and the contact surface is incorrect.. causing premature wear and eventually excessive slop between the gears

If that were the case, then it would be more wear every time one reduces pressure on the accelerator pedal, considering the drag of the motor... no?

[82vdub]

I agree. I'm not sure how you'd only heat treat one side of the teeth of a gear.

[air-cooled or diesel]

[the vegenator]

Thanks for those tips on shops in Philly! I'm much like you - I probably won't be getting much done aside from alignment or diagnostics. I actually do need to get a second opinion on steering/suspension issues, so maybe I'll one of those places up. But yeah, at this point - esp after rebuilding the engine - I have no problems doing all the work on my car. I'm mostly going to miss a Volkswagen shop in Louisville, which always seemed to have some decent parts and junk cars around, as well as a full stock room of new parts. Was hoping to find something similar here.

As for the towing issue, I emailed Brian (BrokeVW) and got his two-cents on the matter. I mainly was confused about the inner workings of the tranny... he definitely spelled it out and demystified it a bit:

As for towing, if possible I'd prefer to tow with the drive wheels off the ground.

Lubrication won't be an issue, there is no pump that needs run, it is a splash lubrication system. The gears sit half submerged in oil, the spin, it slings the oil up and it coats the top of the gears in the process. This will still happen as you tow the vehicle. The R&P set will be spinning, 3rd, 4th, and 5th will be spinning, and oil will be getting splashed around.

The issue is that the gears teeth would be contacting each other on the other side than they normally do.
Normally, the engine drives the trans. This means that one side of each tooth on the gears will be hitting and pushing one side of the teeth on the mating gears.

When you are in engine over-run, which is in gear, clutch not depressed, and the engine braking the car (flying into a corner in 4th, downshift to 3rd, let the clutch out, the engine races up and the car starts slowing... that's engine over-run, or engine braking), the teeth on the gears will be contacting on the other side than they normally do, because now the engine is being driven by the trans, and not the other way around.

This means the entire time you are towing the teeth are not contacting each other as they normally do. This shouldn't be an issue as there is no load (no resistance from the engine, and no weight of the car for the trans to try to move as it is being towed), but I don't know if I would want to do that myself.

The gears and parts are older in the trans, it might just be enough (a long tow trip) to cause some damage to the gear tooth faces on the backsides... where they don't normally run.

Frankly, I think it is a long shot, and as you've experienced it'll likely be fine, but if I had a choice, I'd lift the drive wheels into the air for towing.

[joat]

its the "contact area" on the front side of the gears that takes the load when you drive ... look up "heel and toe" and research gears .

when you decelerate, the contact patch changes position ( minimal time spent in this mode) and MAY cause wear if the trans is not set up perfectly. grinding the heel or the toe to a knife edge and increasing gear mesh tolerances


they heat treat gears then apply a hardening compound on the contact surface when they are hot.... it is the coating that extends the gear life.

towing the car MAY damage the gears , VW recommends against it