MASSIVE Blowby/Oil on new engine

[Quantum-man]

So i pulled the head offf today. Head looks great, no cracks, all cylinders look to be burning evenly and the same. The cylinders look good too, including cylinder 4. All look the same, no scratches, no cracks, carbon is evenly distributed and looks the same on all pistons.

When I removed the head bolts, I loosened them in reverse scequence of torquing them. Number 10 bolt, at the rear of cylinder #1 was completely loose, no torque at all, and was just sitting there. I unscrewed it with my fingers! I was amazed at how little torque was on all the others too. Felt like an equivilant of about 30 ft. lbs!!!
That is always disconcerting, and why I always undo bolts before doing final angled torque into plastic range of bolt. This gives them equal clamping. It's surprising how little tightness bolts need to stay water tight. Not done any research on it, but perhaps 30lb to undo is say 50lb to do up. Maybe I wrote it down somewhere when doing a head.

I originally torqued the head bolts in the correct (Bentley) procedure, while on the engine stand. Then finished the final torqueing while in the car. Ran the car for approx 1400 miles with no problems. Then I did the last & final torque procedure with the engine hot. This is when all the problems started.

All the threads look good in the block and on the bolts.

I thought I read somewhere, a stand that held engine from one end should not be used when applying the head because the block bends!

My Theory:
I'm wondering if while torquing while hot, then have everything contract while cold, then heating up again repeatedly started loosening the bolts up. I think that would explain the coolant working its way past the head gasket and into the oil passages. Once my pan filled with the oil plus approx 1/2 gallon of missing coolant it created to much pressure inside the block and had had to come out somewhere. Following the path of least resistance, it went past the rings and oil passages of cylinder 4 to reach the valve cover breather right above it.

Make any sense?
I think piston pressure will either push water out of filler cap, or across to the oil supply near #4 cylinder or into one of the oil drains/vents. Any water pushed by any cylinder into the oil will steam out of the vent, so I think #4 cylinder being under the vent is mere happenstance

Question #2
It is a 12mm Mechanical engine 1.6 TD

Why does the Erling head gasket not have 3 of the small coolant holes drilled thru it, when the block and head both have those holes? I called a vw shop about it and they said it was designed that way. Sounds fishy....why would vw put the holes there, if you don't need them. The holes I'm referring to is, one on either side of the front main oil drain passage, and one at the front of cylinder 1.

The missing holes are purposeful to direct the coolant into certain directions around the headThanks guys!

[Quantum-man]

How do you know it's massive blowby? Sometimes it's a little deceiving!

[demon]

Very interesting questions to ponder Quantam man.

Possibly normal blowby magnified by additional pressure created by the huge amount of liquid within the crankcase. Something was creating so much pressure to force approximately 1 quart an hour or more out of the vc breather. I'm thinking it was working like a well pump. As pistons go down they create a suction allowing more water/antifreeze to pour into the oil passages or cylinders, and eventually into the crankcase. As pistons go up they pushed it back out into the valve train and out the breather. Hell IDK. LOL. I'm not a physics major here!

[demon]

A new set of ARP Headstuds are on there way. Santa's coming early this year!

[CarlosA]

A new set of ARP Headstuds are on there way. Santa's coming early this year!

Good one. I am always afraid to torque them down to the spec in the literature. Maybe others will talk about how they do it. 70 ft lb in my paper from 2003 seems way too high.

[demon]

The stock vw head bolts and procedure is retarted. Even many VW diesel veterans I've been talking to have had past problems with them.

I'll have to wait and see what the ARP's call for, but I thought I read in another forum that most guys were torquing them once to 110 ft. lbs. Then again, alot of those guys are running massive amounts of boost and using metal head gaskets.

It's definitly hard to justify the $170.00 I payed for them, but if it cures my aggrevation, they'll be well worth it! LOL.

[the man 53]

I have arp and a metal gasket. I torqued to 100ft/lbs and I have no issues. I am running around 22psi boost. I think with the fiber gasket and these studs you could do anything 80 ft/lbs and over and be ok. As I have heard someone running that setup, I just can't remember who right now. You won't have any issues up to 100 ft/lbs breaking anything. I know another guy that went up to 120 ft/lbs but that is right near the tensile strength limits and you don't want to get right up to it if you don't have to.

[demon]

Ok. Thanks for the info man 53. Must be fun at 22 psi! Must be a hydraulic block too with a metal hg. I heard of guys converting a metal hg to operate on a mechanical block with cutting the other main oil passage off, but that sounds like alot of work.

I'm set at 10psi for now, but would like to eventually bump it up to the 16-18psi range down the road. From what I've been reading, with ARP's and even the stock fiber hg, I should be in the clear until I get into the 20's range.

[texcl]

$170 ouch! I found some on ebay for $95 plus all the shipping, think it was way under $120 when it was all said and done. I torqued mine to 80lbs, with no problems, but mine is n/a. looks like you may have found your culprit.

[demon]

Hopefully, from what I've been reading it seems like the stock stretch bolts are the weakest link.

[the man 53]

Nope, actually it is an 85 MF engine that is mechanical. It is ok, I need to get my bigger turbo mounted and then it will be real fun. I like the studs. If they had no benefit other than being reusable I would still buy them. I have had more money in bolts than I do the studs so they are actually cheaper for me.

[demon]

Update:

Today I started putting her back together with the new head studs. Upon torquing them in stages, I was at 75 ft. lbs. when the last one pulled loose in the block threads. Oh the aggravation!!! This is the same location of the bolt that was extremely loose before, so I think I found the culprit. (behind cylinder #1) Just sucks cuz now I need to pull it apart and helicoil the block. And yes, I cleaned out all the bolt holes with a tap, brakleen, and cotton swab them dry, before putting it together. And followed ARP's directions.

Has anyone Helicoiled a VW block before with success?

[CarlosA]

Update:

Today I started putting her back together with the new head studs. Upon torquing them in stages, I was at 75 ft. lbs. when the last one pulled loose in the block threads. Oh the aggravation!!! This is the same location of the bolt that was extremely loose before, so I think I found the culprit. (behind cylinder #1) Just sucks cuz now I need to pull it apart and helicoil the block. And yes, I cleaned out all the bolt holes with a tap, brakleen, and cotton swab them dry, before putting it together. And followed ARP's directions.

Has anyone Helicoiled a VW block before with success?

Harsh! That is always what i`m afraid of, I only went up to 60 ft lb last weekend, i`m going to check the torque this weekend, i hope they haven't lost anything.

Don`t take this as advice, but i`d say if you can heli-coil and torque it to like 45 ft lb that would be enough along with the rest being closer to spec. I`m betting that the thread repair will be as strong as original though.

If you tap for the heli coil try to do it slowly without drilling and risking the hole getting off center.

Good price for the kit, makes me want to have one around just in case: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000WGBNW6/ref ... 6ob1A966NC

[the man 53]

maxwell_pfax@yahoo.com

This guy has done some crazy stuff. He welded a 1.5 that was cracked to the point of pieces falling off. I would email him as he is in PA as well. Might be able to help you. If you don't have another block I would definately look into a helicoil. I wouldn't reduce the torque setting as the head will likely warp if you don't torque them evenly. The Helicoil will either work or it won't for the most part. So you will either pull it out when torquing or it should hold up as good as the block.

[surfcam]

I would make sure the Helicoil is recessed a eight inch or so. I wouldn't run a tap into it because this will weaken it substantially. If the bolt or stud is tight I would give it a little tap then turn it. If it just will not go in maybe a thread chaser as a last resort.