starter problem

[82vdub]

you can test just the starter/battery/connections by using what's called a remote starter. You clip this to the solenoid and energize the solenoid by the hand switch. This bypasses 100% of the factory starter solenoid wiring, and will only test the starter, power cables to the starter, and starter itself. You can test this with the key off, so no other electrical system is energized.

[the man 53]

If you never replaced the bushing in the trans that will ruin a new starter in short order. It will also make a new starter work harder than it needss to. You can make a self lube bushing when you buy the bushing with the starter, fill it full of your favorite lube oil and squeeze. It will come out of the sides of the bushing since it is brass. Then you don't have to put grease to it and possibly hydro lock the starter from going in to that bushing.

Anything???

[greg lousy]

If you never replaced the bushing in the trans that will ruin a new starter in short order. It will also make a new starter work harder than it needss to. You can make a self lube bushing when you buy the bushing with the starter, fill it full of your favorite lube oil and squeeze. It will come out of the sides of the bushing since it is brass. Then you don't have to put grease to it and possibly hydro lock the starter from going in to that bushing.

The previous owner did this, which is nothing definitive, but I feel I am dealing with a more immediate issue

you can test just the starter/battery/connections by using what's called a remote starter. You clip this to the solenoid and energize the solenoid by the hand switch. This bypasses 100% of the factory starter solenoid wiring, and will only test the starter, power cables to the starter, and starter itself. You can test this with the key off, so no other electrical system is energized.

Right now the battery is trickle charging. tomorrow I plan on disconnecting the positive battery strap, jumpering to the solenoid, and crossing terminals. Same idea - thought of it the night after I ordered the starter.
Anyhow, yes, this is again looking electrical. I keep getting thrown off by changing symptoms (or lack thereof). I just tried to start again and nothing happened, solenoid didn't even click. The battery voltage dropped from 13 down to 11 after a fairly quick try. Something's up but I'm not sure where to start.

I tested the X relay too, by swapping it with the fan relay, which is the exact same in my car. This time, no cranking but the solenoid clicked. Swapped it back, and the solenoid clicked.
I feel confident to at least wrap my mind around anything mechanical, but I am intimidated by this electrical stuff. not sure where to go from here. ignition switch?
What does it say when the problem occurs in the starting position, when the starting system is (in theory) isolated)?

[the man 53]

Depending on how bad the bushing is I ruined my first starter in less than a week as I had no clue about the bushing that was in there. I think it was .022" worn when we measured it against a new one, and the starter would bind and fight itself. Got another new starter and it did the same thing. Changed the bushing and on the same new starter and all was swell. But since you have a more immediate issue, this info maybe more helpful for the next guy with starter issues.

[82vdub]

not sure where to go from here. ignition switch?

Manually operate the starter by crossing the terminals or using a bypass switch to first find out if the starter works without testing any other electrical system but the starter and it's (power) electrical connections. If it works, then you have a problem elsewhere. If it doesn't, then the starter is the problem. You need to isolate and test various systems on the car to test portions of what you suspect is wrong. Without first confirming that the battery is good and then confirming that the starter is good, you can chase this problem for a long time. Start at the source, then at the end, and if both confirm good, then something in the middle is wrong.

[greg lousy]

I just isolated the starter (disconnect + strap, jumpered directly to starter, crossed terminals) - same result.

I'm beginning to wonder if I simply overcharged and screwed up my new battery, replacing a crap battery with a soon to be crap battery. At first, when the battery was in, voltage was draining through the glow plug wire. I corrected this, but in the process of figuring this out I drained and recharged my battery several times, mostly using a trickle charge and trying to be careful, but I may have screwed up in my haste to work on and test my vehicle.

My wife is away, otherwise her battery would currently be getting jacked in the driveway for testing purposes

Anyhow, the battery now quickly charges to a crazy voltage reading (upwards of 15 volts) and then drains very quickly.

Fried?

The battery is under warranty - I wonder if stupidity is covered.

[82vdub]

When you say you isolated the starter (disconnect and strap), what does that mean? All you need to do is to cross the big fat wire coming from the battery and the terminal that the ignition "crank" wire is connected to. It's as simple as that.

[greg lousy]

thats what I did. I also disconnected everything from the positive battery terminal and jumpered to the starter. Probably unnecessary - just simplifying the situation

[82vdub]

If the starter didn't turn, it's either a starter, solenoid, battery, or cable/ground connections to the starter. No need to test any other wiring if the starter itself doesn't spin.

[greg lousy]

The starter spins a little, then fizzles out, battery drains (I should have been more descriptive)

I think I'm down to the starter motor or battery. I feel things are clearing up. Thanks for the help.

[mtran]

Anyhow, the battery now quickly charges to a crazy voltage reading (upwards of 15 volts) and then drains very quickly.

15 v is OK,but how meny Amp do you charge,and if go down so fast that isn`t OK.
How much V is than you drain if low than 9.8v than no good.
ps.Just like cell phone bat.

[Fatmobile]

Hold the key and crank it for awhile, when it stops cranking still hold the key in starter position.
Then go feel the connections.
Bad connections get hot/warm.

thanks, thats a great little test to be aware of.

definitely some heat build up on the big solenoid terminal and the terminal connecting to the starter motor.

I iust ordered a starter, since I've already been through the process of cleaning these terminals and connections, bypassing the main wire, and even replacing the solenoid.

I'm thinking the heat is building up in back of the starter motor

Much of the time I can uscrew the washer at the bottom of the solenoid stud
(the one that connects to the battery)
once it is threaded far enough down the stud;
the stud can be pushed in and turned so it contacts a different spot.

Thsi usually solves my hot stud problem.

[the man 53]

The starter spins a little, then fizzles out, battery drains (I should have been more descriptive)

I think I'm down to the starter motor or battery. I feel things are clearing up. Thanks for the help.

I wonder if there is a bushing or something that would make the starter work harder if it was bad. I bet if there was it would spin a new starter fast at the start, then seem like it is struggling, and then ruin the new starter after repeated uses.

[texcl]

I had this same problem, i ended up replacing the starter only to have it do the same thing shortly after. The next one IReplaced the starter bushing and installed the new starter no problems since.

[the man 53]

I had this same problem, i ended up replacing the starter only to have it do the same thing shortly after. The next one IReplaced the starter bushing and installed the new starter no problems since.

Yeah it was kind of tounge and cheek as I have made reference to this about 3 times. He'll catch on soon and then post back that he wished he would have known there is a bushing in there and this could have been fixed sooner.