New glow plugs - no start

[vibraphone321]

The rabbit has not been starting without the hose heater plugged in during this 20-30 degree weather so I decided to swap out the glow plugs and see if it would help. Now, after the swap it won't start. Any ideas?

Some background:

Was starting fine in 45 degrees and warmer temps
Started great with heater plugged in for two hours - no/little smoke or clatter
Then starts perfect without GPs after its been running
Cold start has never made much of a difference (sound or starting)

When swapping GPs I:
Pulled steel injector lines, coldstart cable, unbolted bracket on drivers side of IP for more clearance,
Put in new return lines to between injectors

One of the old GPs I pulled was black with carbon, the other three were worn looking, but clean.
I don't know how old they were, I bought the car in October.

Now it cranks and cranks, never tries to catch and start. Just cranks smooth and spits out a little grey'ish cloud of exhaust
I pulled the injector lines and bled the system, as described in the bentley.


No luck......
Thanks in advance.

[82vdub]

Are the glow plugs getting power, and what is their amp draw (or did you test them according to the Bentley)? If they are glowing properly (pulling the correct amperage etc), what is your compression ratio? The white smoke indicates fuel (that's not combusting properly), but you could have fuel siphoning back to the tank leaving not enough fuel to start the engine, but to make smoke. If it won't start without being plugged in, how easy does it start after trying it without the block heater then plugging the heater in for 2 hours. Does it crank for a bit, or fire right off like it was just shut off?

Here's one way to know the glowplugs work:

[vibraphone321]

Glow plugs are getting power. I tested them by hooking a test light to the ground on the battery and touching the end to GP #4. When I tried that same thing with my multi-meter to check the amp draw, I couldn't get it to work.... I don't really know what I am doing with this thing........... I set it to the settings with the "A" on DC voltage and it didn't get a reading (just zeros) - but the same process made the test light glow instantly.

I haven't tested the compression. It probably isn't great, but the car had been running well the day before-starting multiple times without problems as I ran errands around town.

Before I changed the plugs:
If it was left overnight in 20-30 degree Fahrenheit weather, it would NOT start..... It would crank, crank, crank - exactly as it does now.
45 degrees and high and it would start with just the GPs.
If plugged in to the heater for two hours, it would turn about 5 times and start with a little puff of grey'ish smoke(enough to leave a black spot in the snow) and I would have to feather the pedal for about 5-10 seconds to keep it from running ruff and stalling- but then it would ALWAYS start and smooth out doing this.

After the plug change:
It WON'T start at all. Tried heating it all day yesterday, tried, tried tried - nothing.
It does act like its not getting enough fuel - it doesn't sputter or cough or anything. I have a brand new battery and jumper pack, so its turning over fast and just won't catch.

I have some (not all) clear lines in the system and I can see fuel getting to the pump. My vaccum gauge says my fuel filter is due for a change, but I am hesitant to change it and lose prime since I am having all this trouble.

Thanks

Does the position of the out bolt on the IP have anything to do with its operation? I rotated it a bit to make it easier to get the line on.

[vibraphone321]

So I realized after posting moments ago that I checked the power to the GPs before the swap and not after..... I just checked and sure enough, no power to the GPs at the ribbon (ground to #4 GP with a test light). I fiddled with it for a minute or two (nothing, nothing, nothing) then unhooked the temp sensor and tried it and then it worked. I think it was coincidence though, because now it works with the temp sensor plugged in.

Sounds like I have a short somewhere?

The pre-glow light always works. Even when the GPs weren't getting power.

Thanks.

[82vdub]

After you discovered that they aren't getting power, did it start? From the earlier post, you didn't get it to fire up even after you plugged the block heater in? If that's the case, likely it's not getting fuel. Did you knock the wire to the fuel solenoid off, or remove it and forget to put it back on? Also, if you removed the injector lines, you have to crank the engine long enough to fill them back up with fuel before the injectors fire. You typically floor the gas pedal to use the starter as little as possible. It should start up nice and easy if it's been plugged in for 2 hours. Is the block getting warm?

[vibraphone321]

It has been working great yesterday and today. It started this morning, first try, no block heater, and it was down in the low 20's.

It didn't start until I saw that it was getting power to the GPs. That's why I am wondering if I have a loose connection somewhere. But I wasn't being very methodical with my troubleshooting. So I could be wrong.... I am thinking about bypassing the GP relay and just going with a push button system like some are doing. Any opinions on that?

It wouldn't start even when plugged in after I took the fuel system apart. It did start with the block heater before I took it apart. The head is getting warm, but not hot. Its a 1 inch heater in the bypass hose. I didn't touch the shut off solenoid - it stayed in place through the process.

I imagine the lack of fuel played a part as you said. Thanks for the tip on flooring it. I didn't know if I should or not - I will next time

Thanks!

[bscutt]

If nothing else, put the pushbutton in with a solenoid. I have actually just used a jumper cable to get power from the battery straight to the glow plug buss (no more than 30 seconds though). If you try that and it works without using the engine heater then you may well have some connection problem in the glow plug circuitry

[TylerDurden]

+1 on the relay... a 50A pushbutton is rare and running long #10 cables into the cabin is a drag and drops the voltage.

Most hand-held meters are not rated to meter 50A current. The clamp-on type usually only meter AC, but Sears has a nice unit (~$70) that meters high current DC.

MK1s had two types of GP: slow and fast. I'd install the fast and the corresponding relay, if you don't already have them. The fast GPs have gold/brass looking fittings on the cable-end, the slow have the silver/aluminum looking fittings. A test-light in the cabin wired to the #4 GP can tell you how long the GPs are energized, before cranking and after the engine starts (post-glow).

[vibraphone321]

Thanks for the tip on the solenoid. I think I may do that when I dig it into the electrical to this summer.

I am glad to hear I wasn't just using the multi-meter wrong.

I went with the slow glow style (since that was relay I had) and the system has been working really well. Starting on the first try in 20 degree temps with no block heater and only a brief puff of black smoke.

Thanks again!