Winding starter- video page 3
Moderator: Fatmobile
Re: Winding starter- video page 3
Wow, three starters doing the same thing? I guess its pretty safe to say its the ring gear. That sucks
1991 Jetta 1.6L N/A
-
Quantum-man
- Turbo Charger
- Posts: 2085
- Joined: Mon Apr 24, 2006 4:34 pm
- Location: Gloucester; Limey-Land
Re: Winding starter- video page 3
Is the starter[s] actually bolting on correctly.
Something to do with the bushing getting in the way of the bendix perhaps?
Do we have a picture of the wear on the flywheel?[I've not looked
]
Something to do with the bushing getting in the way of the bendix perhaps?
Do we have a picture of the wear on the flywheel?[I've not looked
]"I'm not here to help... I'm here to Pro-Volke"
Be like meeee...Drive a Quantum TD
...The best work-horse after the cart...
Quantae grow on you...but Rabbits are like roses...
... girls like em ;o)
Only one Darwin, Einstein, Poe and Verne.
That is why if you listen, you will learn:
From the one and only Quantum-man,
Who sees the worms from outside of the can.
7 Quantae in 20 years; 4 dead and 3 TD's still alive [2 wagons & 1 fastback] oh and a GTD
)
Be like meeee...Drive a Quantum TD
...The best work-horse after the cart...
Quantae grow on you...but Rabbits are like roses...
... girls like em ;o)
Only one Darwin, Einstein, Poe and Verne.
That is why if you listen, you will learn:
From the one and only Quantum-man,
Who sees the worms from outside of the can.
7 Quantae in 20 years; 4 dead and 3 TD's still alive [2 wagons & 1 fastback] oh and a GTD
)-
Quantum-man
- Turbo Charger
- Posts: 2085
- Joined: Mon Apr 24, 2006 4:34 pm
- Location: Gloucester; Limey-Land
Re: Winding starter
sfarrier wrote:Yes I tried that. It's got to be a wiring problem somewhere. Just finding it will be a bear.
Just to clarify...
Is this implying that direct jumper to starter from battery and jumper from casing of starter to negative of battery worked, so it is indeed in the wiring, or didn't; so now on starter #3 it's a problem with the meshing?
"I'm not here to help... I'm here to Pro-Volke"
Be like meeee...Drive a Quantum TD
...The best work-horse after the cart...
Quantae grow on you...but Rabbits are like roses...
... girls like em ;o)
Only one Darwin, Einstein, Poe and Verne.
That is why if you listen, you will learn:
From the one and only Quantum-man,
Who sees the worms from outside of the can.
7 Quantae in 20 years; 4 dead and 3 TD's still alive [2 wagons & 1 fastback] oh and a GTD)
Be like meeee...Drive a Quantum TD
...The best work-horse after the cart...
Quantae grow on you...but Rabbits are like roses...
... girls like em ;o)
Only one Darwin, Einstein, Poe and Verne.
That is why if you listen, you will learn:
From the one and only Quantum-man,
Who sees the worms from outside of the can.
7 Quantae in 20 years; 4 dead and 3 TD's still alive [2 wagons & 1 fastback] oh and a GTD
)Re: Winding starter- video page 3
Quantum-man,
Sorry for the confusion. I thought it was a wiring problem before I found my multi-meter.
No the jumping didn't work.
I don't see how I could have the starter bolted on wrong, the only other way it could go on is upside down. It has always fit snug up against the bell housing.
The bushing is new. It was greased and mounted flush with housing.
There is a view of the flywheel in the video. To me it looks okay, but I really don't know. Maybe it's out of wack some how.
The original problem stated with a 4 month old starter. I don't see how it can go from meshing to not at all, if it's not the flywheel?
Sorry for the confusion. I thought it was a wiring problem before I found my multi-meter.
No the jumping didn't work.
I don't see how I could have the starter bolted on wrong, the only other way it could go on is upside down. It has always fit snug up against the bell housing.
The bushing is new. It was greased and mounted flush with housing.
There is a view of the flywheel in the video. To me it looks okay, but I really don't know. Maybe it's out of wack some how.
The original problem stated with a 4 month old starter. I don't see how it can go from meshing to not at all, if it's not the flywheel?
-
Quantum-man
- Turbo Charger
- Posts: 2085
- Joined: Mon Apr 24, 2006 4:34 pm
- Location: Gloucester; Limey-Land
Re: Winding starter- video page 3
Thanks for clarifying. Not at all familiar with transverse starter rings, as they are diferent to Quantum types.
However there seems to be the option of some rings shrunk on.
So can the actual ring be shifted somehow away from correct position?
Is it possible that the wrong shims between starter ring and crank put ring too far from bendix; so only a new ring meshed?
I mean surely interlock must be over half the ring width normally...
However there seems to be the option of some rings shrunk on.
So can the actual ring be shifted somehow away from correct position?
Is it possible that the wrong shims between starter ring and crank put ring too far from bendix; so only a new ring meshed?
I mean surely interlock must be over half the ring width normally...
"I'm not here to help... I'm here to Pro-Volke"
Be like meeee...Drive a Quantum TD
...The best work-horse after the cart...
Quantae grow on you...but Rabbits are like roses...
... girls like em ;o)
Only one Darwin, Einstein, Poe and Verne.
That is why if you listen, you will learn:
From the one and only Quantum-man,
Who sees the worms from outside of the can.
7 Quantae in 20 years; 4 dead and 3 TD's still alive [2 wagons & 1 fastback] oh and a GTD)
Be like meeee...Drive a Quantum TD
...The best work-horse after the cart...
Quantae grow on you...but Rabbits are like roses...
... girls like em ;o)
Only one Darwin, Einstein, Poe and Verne.
That is why if you listen, you will learn:
From the one and only Quantum-man,
Who sees the worms from outside of the can.
7 Quantae in 20 years; 4 dead and 3 TD's still alive [2 wagons & 1 fastback] oh and a GTD
)Re: Winding starter- video page 3
I'm not aware of any shims anywhere.
I measured the distance from bushing to flywheel, and compared that distance with the snap ring on the shaft and bendix gear. It looks to me that they should mesh no problem.
I replaced the clutch about 6 months ago, maybe the flywheel has worked loose somehow. Although it doesn't feel that way when I turn it with a screwdriver.
What can make things not mesh all of the sudden? I'm really at a loss.
I have a junk starter I took apart. I held the armature with the shaft and bendix gear like it would be mounted, and then using the engaging fork of the solenoid meshed things up. I was able to turn the motor by hand pretty easily. If that makes sense.
I measured the distance from bushing to flywheel, and compared that distance with the snap ring on the shaft and bendix gear. It looks to me that they should mesh no problem.
I replaced the clutch about 6 months ago, maybe the flywheel has worked loose somehow. Although it doesn't feel that way when I turn it with a screwdriver.
What can make things not mesh all of the sudden? I'm really at a loss.
I have a junk starter I took apart. I held the armature with the shaft and bendix gear like it would be mounted, and then using the engaging fork of the solenoid meshed things up. I was able to turn the motor by hand pretty easily. If that makes sense.
-
Quantum-man
- Turbo Charger
- Posts: 2085
- Joined: Mon Apr 24, 2006 4:34 pm
- Location: Gloucester; Limey-Land
Re: Winding starter- video page 3
Do you think it could be related? Can you wedge a screwdriver between the flywheel and the block and get any play? Maybe it worked loose; after all it's an energy storage unit and tries to stop the engine from shaking the car to bitsfarrier wrote:I'm not aware of any shims anywhere.
I measured the distance from bushing to flywheel, and compared that distance with the snap ring on the shaft and bendix gear. It looks to me that they should mesh no problem.
I replaced the clutch about 6 months ago, maybe the flywheel has worked loose somehow. Although it doesn't feel that way when I turn it with a screwdriver.
What can make things not mesh all of the sudden? I'm really at a loss.
I have a junk starter I took apart. I held the armature with the shaft and bendix gear like it would be mounted, and then using the engaging fork of the solenoid meshed things up. I was able to turn the motor by hand pretty easily. If that makes sense.
"I'm not here to help... I'm here to Pro-Volke"
Be like meeee...Drive a Quantum TD
...The best work-horse after the cart...
Quantae grow on you...but Rabbits are like roses...
... girls like em ;o)
Only one Darwin, Einstein, Poe and Verne.
That is why if you listen, you will learn:
From the one and only Quantum-man,
Who sees the worms from outside of the can.
7 Quantae in 20 years; 4 dead and 3 TD's still alive [2 wagons & 1 fastback] oh and a GTD)
Be like meeee...Drive a Quantum TD
...The best work-horse after the cart...
Quantae grow on you...but Rabbits are like roses...
... girls like em ;o)
Only one Darwin, Einstein, Poe and Verne.
That is why if you listen, you will learn:
From the one and only Quantum-man,
Who sees the worms from outside of the can.
7 Quantae in 20 years; 4 dead and 3 TD's still alive [2 wagons & 1 fastback] oh and a GTD
)Re: Winding starter- video page 3
I'll check it out in the morning. Thanks.
Re: Winding starter- video page 3
Well the flywheel didn't appear loose. I snugged the flywheel bolts a little anyway.
Snugged up the bell housing bolts also.
Installed the starter again, still the same.
Snugged up the bell housing bolts also.
Installed the starter again, still the same.
Re: Winding starter- video page 3
Well that is some new info, did the problem only start soon after that?farrier wrote:I replaced the clutch about 6 months ago
Did you take off the pressure plate when you did the clutch? if yes, did you replace the shims between the P-plate and crank?
When you replaced the flywheel, did you locate it properly with the dowel pins? (there are other holes in the flywheel that dowels fit into, but are not the locating holes)
Is the tranny fully contacting the engine block all the way around?
....please tell me you took some pics of the flywheel when you had the tranny out this time?
Maybe ring gear on flywheel is moving? (not likely)
Are you sure you got the right starter bushing?....did you check the fit on the starter before installing? If it had a bigger inside diameter, that would allow the starter shaft to move
What are your engine and tranny codes?
1991 Jetta 1.6L N/A
Re: Winding starter- video page 3
ad,
The problem started just a few weeks ago. Before that, no problem.
Yes I took off pressure plate. Replaced with a new one. Used same flywheel. It looked good I thought. Yes I got it on dowel pins for sure. I used clutch alignment tool. I really don't remember about the shims. No clutching or shifting problems.
Yes tranny up tight against the block.
No pics of when I replaced the clutch. Haven't yet pulled the tranny out to look at the flywheel.
Thanks for your help. I might replace the bushing again just for the heck of it, before I dig into this.
The problem started just a few weeks ago. Before that, no problem.
Yes I took off pressure plate. Replaced with a new one. Used same flywheel. It looked good I thought. Yes I got it on dowel pins for sure. I used clutch alignment tool. I really don't remember about the shims. No clutching or shifting problems.
Yes tranny up tight against the block.
No pics of when I replaced the clutch. Haven't yet pulled the tranny out to look at the flywheel.
Thanks for your help. I might replace the bushing again just for the heck of it, before I dig into this.
Re: Winding starter- video page 3
Well when this one is solved it will be one for the record books. I have been reading this since day one and just can't comprehend what might be wrong. I suppose if the starter bushing was gone the shaft of the starter might be coerced into flexing far enough from the flywheel to miss the ring gear but that is a long shot. I wish you all the luck in the world on this.
Bob
'06 Jetta TDI
'82 Rabbit 1.6NA
Honda, 99 GMC Suburban, '41 Chevy Coupe
'06 Jetta TDI
'82 Rabbit 1.6NA
Honda, 99 GMC Suburban, '41 Chevy Coupe
Re: Winding starter- video page 3
Well I replaced the bushing again this morning just for fun. Now I can't get the motor to turn at all.
So this tells me there has to be some kind of engagement problem with flywheel.
When I get it out I'll post pics. I've got a spare flywheel in a parts truck that was engaging good before the motor blew.
I'll compare the two.
So this tells me there has to be some kind of engagement problem with flywheel.
When I get it out I'll post pics. I've got a spare flywheel in a parts truck that was engaging good before the motor blew.
I'll compare the two.
-
Quantum-man
- Turbo Charger
- Posts: 2085
- Joined: Mon Apr 24, 2006 4:34 pm
- Location: Gloucester; Limey-Land
Re: Winding starter- video page 3
Yes, but whatever you do , don't just run away without telling us if you find the problem, [err solve the problem]We have all got seats in the front row herefarrier wrote:Well I replaced the bushing again this morning just for fun. Now I can't get the motor to turn at all.
So this tells me there has to be some kind of engagement problem with flywheel.
When I get it out I'll post pics. I've got a spare flywheel in a parts truck that was engaging good before the motor blew.
I'll compare the two.
What ever happened to that raspberry picker?
"I'm not here to help... I'm here to Pro-Volke"
Be like meeee...Drive a Quantum TD
...The best work-horse after the cart...
Quantae grow on you...but Rabbits are like roses...
... girls like em ;o)
Only one Darwin, Einstein, Poe and Verne.
That is why if you listen, you will learn:
From the one and only Quantum-man,
Who sees the worms from outside of the can.
7 Quantae in 20 years; 4 dead and 3 TD's still alive [2 wagons & 1 fastback] oh and a GTD)
Be like meeee...Drive a Quantum TD
...The best work-horse after the cart...
Quantae grow on you...but Rabbits are like roses...
... girls like em ;o)
Only one Darwin, Einstein, Poe and Verne.
That is why if you listen, you will learn:
From the one and only Quantum-man,
Who sees the worms from outside of the can.
7 Quantae in 20 years; 4 dead and 3 TD's still alive [2 wagons & 1 fastback] oh and a GTD
)Re: Winding starter- video page 3
I would suggest that before you spend all that time removing the tranny, get a pair of dial calipers and measure all the distances from the machined surfaces of the tranny to flywheel, starter to gear when fully extended, etc., and determine that amount of gear engagement.
Either the gear is fully extended and engaged, but gets pushed away from the flywheel when torque is applied; or the gear teeth are just barely engaging a very small amount to start turning, but then slips.
Also, in an earlier post I asked about the starter gear spinning on its shaft.....you said it spins easy in one direction, and hard in the other. It should not spin at all in one direction. Please confirm this first. I'd hate to see you remove the tranny for no reason.
Either the gear is fully extended and engaged, but gets pushed away from the flywheel when torque is applied; or the gear teeth are just barely engaging a very small amount to start turning, but then slips.
Also, in an earlier post I asked about the starter gear spinning on its shaft.....you said it spins easy in one direction, and hard in the other. It should not spin at all in one direction. Please confirm this first. I'd hate to see you remove the tranny for no reason.
1991 Jetta 1.6L N/A