MK1 Jetta won't start

[mammonista]

Bought an '83 Jetta coupe yesterday. Prolly paid too much for it but I plan to swap in a 1.9TDI-M engine ASAP and use it as a daily driver. The car came from the factory with a 1.6TD pushing a 3-speed auto. A previous owner must have blown the TD and swapped in a 1.6 NA as that's what's in the car now. I'd be open to any suggestions on years of engine/trans combos for the swap. At any rate that's not my current problem...

By the way I test drove the car a couple of weeks ago and it was really hard to start. In fact it only started after maybe a minute of cranking. The owner said it's been doing this a lot lately. Yesterday when I bought it, it wouldn't fire at all. I'm not terribly concerned as the car is going to go in storage until I can get a TDI ready to swap in. But this morning I went out and figured I'd get it running eventually. No luck. It feels like it wants to start but won't. The pump is leaking badly from some undetermined location. I changed the filter and put in 5 gallons of fresh diesel. My experience with several VW/Audi diesels (81 Rabbit -NA, 82 Caddy -TD, 81(?) Audi 5000 -NA, 84 Quantum - TD, 87 Van - TD) is even with no power to the glow plugs the engines will eventually start just from the heat of compression. But this one won't catch no matter how long I crank. And to tell the truth I don't know if the glow plugs are getting juice although I assume they are. Any ideas?

[Quantum-man]

Just to cross it off the list, get power to the glow plugs, and get glow plugs to take power.

Poor fueling at cranking,air leaks, low compression, and the car'll never start. Weak cranking speed will make it hard.

When started how does it run? Try switching off and immediate restart.

The list is endless, so narrow it down.

[surfcam]

Maybe search 82vdub hard starting he's got a lot of good write ups on hard starting and running your engine from a separate bottle. I think the 02A tranny that's for the TDI maybe the way to go. It's got the low rev's you need for the big crank 1.9. That tranny also has the bigger stub axles for the bigger CV's that you are going to need. I don't really know if this will fit but it shouldn't be to hard to find out. Your not inventing the wheel hear. I take it that your engine is a Z1/AHU. Other wise your in it for the long haul. Lot's for welding.

[82vdub]

Nice looking car.

The first thing to check for when there's a cold hard start issue is glow plugs. No glow plugs most of these older engines just won't fire. If you have access to a receptacle and the car has a block heater in it, if you plug that in for a couple hours and the car fires up like it should, then it's glow plugs. If it's still hard to start, it's likely not glow plugs but something else. Like I said, with a block heater, it's really, really easy to test for working glow plugs with very little effort.

[mammonista]

Thanks everybody , Now that I think about it I'm sure you are all right.
Now about those engine/trans combos... There's a guy on cl selling a '98 TDI with the a 5-speed. Will that engine swap right in?

[surfcam]

I forgot that 02A is a cable shifter so you need the stick shift as well. If you have a donor car I would go for the whole shooting match. Cluster, wiring harness, and brain box. You can buy a repinner for cheap and maybe wire it into your fuse box. I guess it looks like factory on a T4. Then you will have timing on the fly accord to conditions. Starting at -25c with no tune-ups. 1200km per tank. I guess the M-TDI is the simplest way to go. I haven't done it so I guess it's easy for me to talk but I have read that the Z1/AHU is the easiest swap with the computer. The next generation TDI comes with the dereaded imoblizer and motor mount between the timing belt. I have one of those engines if you need it. I'm going to try a trade it for a Z1/AHU. I see you posted while I was writing. I have to go for now.

[surfcam]

I'm back for an hour. Please Google "ahu swap to mark2". Like I said before", let's not reinvent the wheel this has been done before." I think you will have everything you need by going this way but I really don't know for sure. I've been researching a Z1/AHU swap into a T4. Since my stepvan got electrocuted this may happen a lot sooner.

[mammonista]

thanks surfcam! that should give me enough to get started. Just curious... are the 1Z/AHU engines visually any different than the more powerful AFN TDIs? What determined what car got what engine as nearest I can tell both powerplants were being manufactured about the same time by the factory?

[mammonista]

By the way I'm also thinking of putting a TDI-m in my '87 Van/pickup (DIY DOKA). I currently have a 1.9 AAZ motor in there but it may need to come out in the next few months to have the pilot bearing recess in the end of the crank machined. That engine has served me well in its current configuration with turbo and inter-cooler but a few more horsepower would be welcome...

[mammonista]

by the way, what is this little solenoid on the front (radiator side) of the injection pump on the Jetta's 1.6 motor? don't remember my old rabbit 1.6 NA having one of these. it's currently not hooked to anything?

[Fatmobile]

I believe that's an automatic cold start advance.

Glow plugs can be easily tested with a voltmeter.
Turn them on and the voltage should drop below 11 volts if all are firing.
Even better to test them with a ammeter. I have one that clips to the battery and the glow plugs.

[mammonista]

should that automatic cold start advance be connected to a 12-volt power source? don't see any spare wires around there anywhere!
tried the ammeter thing. had 12 volts at the first plug, couldn't quite reach the center two plugs with the probe but the last one had nothing.

[Fatmobile]

I'm not exactly sure how the cold start thing work.
I think there is wax inside that heats up and expands to advance timing so maybe it should have power during warmup.
Someone must know more than me on this subject. My cummins bread truck has one and I'd like to know more about it and what it would take to convert it to a manual, cable controlled cold start lever.

Confused by you describing an ammeter as having 12 volts. Probably meant 12 amps. That sounds about right for old fast glows. settles down to about 48 amps for all 4.

You must have pulled the buss bar that connects them.

If the first one is bad you might be able to get to it from the timing belt side. Or it might be easier with the upper timing belt cover off.

[82vdub]

mammonista, did you just do a voltage check at each plug, or measure amps? If some of the plugs don't draw any amperage, they are not glowing. I don't know what weak glow plugs will pull for amperage, but I've had some that would still glow, but by the time the relay kicked off, they had just begun to glow where a new plug glowed very bright before the relay kicked off. You need to take out the injectors to see this though.

[mammonista]

I'm just gonna change them all out. Bought a cheap in-line, radiator hose block heater too. Just need to get this old girl running so I can driver her to the storage garage until the Spring comes here in central Illinois, and salt is off the roads. The body is rust free and I don't want to start down that path now. Thanks for the input everyone. My next challenge is going to be finding a suitable TDI for the swap and a trans to go along with it. This guy at (competitor's name remove by moderator) says I need one of these ASD code 5-speeds with a 3.16 r/p and a .72 fifth gear. Makes sense. He sells them for about $500 which doesn't sound like too much although I'd have to pay another $100 in shipping I'm sure.
This car already had a cold start lever/cable so I'm surprised it has an automatic solenoid as well.