020 Tranny Replacement Clarity, please

[Lono]

Hello,

I'm in the process of replacing the transmission in my 1981 VW Diesel Truck (5-speed, manual transmission), and, although I've done a lot of research on replacing it with a used transmission, I'm still not 100-percent clear on some things, and I really want to be sure about the replacement.

The code on the tranny I removed is: FF 14041 (which, I believe, is the actual date it was manufactured: April 14, 1981), and, 020 301 103.

Now, I've read some conflicting stuff on what to replace it with.

For example, I read that all 5-speed, "020" trannys will work as a replacement -- gas, diesel doesn't matter -- just as long as the first 3 digits in the code are "020."

Is that right?

The reason I'm asking is, because, I live in a very rural part of California, and it's slim pickin's on used, early 1980s VW parts around here. However, there's a salvage yard about an hour's drive from here that has a 1984 Cabriolet, and a 1986 Cabriolet that they said they could pull a tranny from.

So, I'm not clear on whether or not those trannys will work in my truck. If the code on those transmissions is "020" does that mean I can use them?

I'm also not 100-percent clear on if there's a gas/diesel difference. Will a tranny from a gas rabbit, work in a diesel rabbit?

Any suggestions on how to proceed would be MUCH appreciated.

I realize various versions of this subject have already been discussed here, but I just want to be 100-percent certain involving my specific situation.

Thanks, and, as always, great site!

[bscutt]

gear ratio is important. 020 is the mechanical style so technically all 020's will bolt up but there are some minor differences and some involve bolts vs. studs for one of the mounting points - I think that may be where the rear transmission mount bolts up.
Again ratio is important with the diesel and an FF or FN or even a 7A should work ok. There are also two different styles of backup light switch and the later ones can be a pain to deal with (these power the upshift light) So the 7A is ok for ratio but not so much for backup light switch (it take the expensive large switch for upshift light).
There used to be some charts out there that showed ratio, switch type and the stud vs. bolt so you may want to do some searches for VW 020 transmission ratio charts

Also Cabriolets tend to have bizarre differences from regular Rabbit/Golf configurations so beware of any cabriolet stuff after 1984. Gasser transmission ratios may not work well in a diesel since they may be geared higher which would make acceleration in the diesel painful.

[Lono]

Thanks Bob. Excellent info.

I'll call the salvage yard back today, and ask about the 84 Cabriolet. Hopefully, they'll give me the codes over the phone. Yesterday, they told me they don't normally get the codes until the customer is at their yard, but I explained my "hour's drive" situation, and I think they felt sorry for me -- I mean, it'd really suck to do a 2-hour round-trip drive just to find out their transmission won't work on my truck -- and they said they were going to get the codes, and "get back" to me.

What I'd like to do -- again, just to be 100-percent sure -- is post the codes (when I get them) from the Cabriolet tranny here, and hopefully get a "yes" or a "no" on whether it'll work.

Also, after reading your response, apparently, one thing that's nice about my situation, is I don't seem to have to worry about the right style of back-up light switch because I've by-passed all of that, and turn on my back-up light with a switch I installed.

bscutt writes:

[i]" ... which would make acceleration in the diesel painful."[/i]

Acceleration in my diesel MORE painful.

[bscutt]

Found this link, there are still some sources of info out there. Also forgot to mention you want the 90mm flanges, not the 100mm and I suspect the cabrios will be the larger ones. These are the flanges on the outputs of the differential that the axles bolt up to. In the chart below you will see the F* series and the 7A mentioned earlier, final ratio is cloes for both, either 3.89 or 3.94, I put a 7A in my 80 Rabbit (1.5 liter) and it was great. The 82 has an early FF which has the .97 5th gear vs. the .91 for the later ones but it gives me more acceleration in 5th and I rarely go over 70 anyway. Hope this helps, there used to be a much better chart out there showing flange size, stud vs, bolt mount for that one spot, and all the ratio info. If i find one like that I'll post a link

http://www.zelek.com/diagram_charts/diagramlist.htm

[bscutt]

Ok found this one, this is much better and includes flange sizes

http://www.a2resource.com/eandt/ratios.html

And this one, scroll down a bit
http://www.brokevw.com/020ratios.html

[Lono]

Bob, thank you SO much for your help. VERY helpful.

Here's the latest:

I was finally able to track down two 4-speed transmissions from a salvage yard about 2 hours away.

The transmission I removed from my truck was a 5-speed, but, if a 4-speed will work, that's totally fine with me (I don't drive fast anyway, and I rarely used 5th gear even when I had it.)

So, if a 4-speed will work, that'd be fine with me.

The codes he gave me were "GC" and "GN," and, according to the ratio chart at this link:

http://www.a2resource.com/eandt/ratios.html

... the only difference between the "FF" transmission that I took out, and the "GC," seems to be something called the "Closeness Index."

Both the GC and the FF are "90mm" "020" "22mm" input shaft.

So, the only main difference I see is that the "Closeness Index" on the FF is "4998.03," and on the GC it's "1796.81," and I don't know if that will prevent it from working.

I'm leaning towards that it sounds like it's going to work. However, some knowledge from the experts here would be MUCH appreciated before I make the 4-hour round trip.

[bscutt]

GC will work that was the stock 4 speed in the early Rabbit diesels. However at 70 mph you will be deaf from the engine noise. I literally threw away the GC I took out of my 80 Rabbit when I put in the 5 speed. won't do that again.

[Lono]

"GC will work"

That is very good news.

I wish I could do a replacement with a 5-speed, but, like I wrote at the top of this thread, early 80s VW transmissions are hard to come by in this back-woods area I live in, and getting them shipped off the Internet basically doubles the price. So, I'm happy to find a (relatively) low mileage, 4-speed, "nearby" at a decent price, that will at least bye me some time until I can find another 5-speed.

Besides, I don't drive over 65 anyway (it's a "speed limit" not a "speed minimum" ) And 90-percent of all my driving is on tiny back roads, at about 35-40mph anyway.

Heck, the way I drive, I might even prefer the 4-speed (I've Googled that point, and see that some VWers do).

Bob, thanks so much again. That ratio chart that you provided gives me a lot of confidence in my purchase, which, hopefully, will happen today. I've already ordered the 4-speed linkage stuff that I'll need.

Once I get it all back together, I'll try to post a suitable ending to this thread, but that may take a week or two (considering it's the Friday before Labor Day weekend, I probably won't even be getting my new parts [which include a new clutch friction disc, and transmission mount] until NEXT Friday.

[Fatmobile]

I would never run another GC trany.
Too low geared, screaming at 65mph.
Meant for the 1.5 with it's higher RPM and lower torque.

[Lono]

Fatmobile writes:

"I would never run another GC trany."

Uh-oh. Now I'm having second thoughts.

How 'bout this?: According to the ratio chart, from gears 1 - 4, the ratios are:

FF "from 81":
3.46
1.94
1.29
0.91

FF "up to 80"
3.46
1.94
1.29
0.97

... and the GC is:
3.46
1.94
1.29
0.97

So, at least to my untrained eye, it looks like the gear ratios from 1 - 4 on the GC are basically the same as the FF (that I removed), and, like I write above, I almost never used 5th gear, even when I had it.

So, considering how I drive, and considering the gear ratios (where, 1 - 4, they're basically the same [and on the FF "up to 80," identical]), would I even notice any difference from my FF to a GC, as long as I kept my driving to my usual under-60-mph, that I do 99-percent of the time?

And, like I say, even if I find that the GC sucks, at least it'll work for a few months, until I can find another 5-speed, right? (Then I'd have the 4-speed for a back-up, which would be nice.)

The "at least it'll work" factor in my particular case, is big. Trying to find a 5-speed locally is taking way too long, and getting one shipped to me is, like, 4-times the $ as the local 4-speed.

By the way, the salvage yard that has the GC also has a "GN."

Would that be better? Although, It's the same gear ratio 1 - 4.

[bscutt]

I personally would not do another GC but here in the Washington DC area going slow is not an option unless you have a death wish. It will probably work fine for you if most of your driving is at low speeds. Do not dispose of your 5 speed linkage pieces in the event that some day you run across a deal on a 5 speed. Much better driveability over 55 mph and will increase the value of your truck significantly if you decide to sell.

[Fatmobile]

Good point you will need some linkage pieces from the salvage yard, and maybe some new links as well if you convert to 4 speed, so keep the old stuff.
I didn't realize a GN was the same as a GC. The GP or GL are nice 4 speeds.
If you have to; go GC and see what you think. Your driving is obviously different than mine,.. I use 5th gear often. My trany is an AGS.