Old guy Old Rabbit---both Happy.

[surfcam]

My experience with Medicare in Canada is that it is mediocre at best. The good thing is the everybody gets some level of care even street people and low income people. This is blasphemy to say this in Canada because publicly fund health care is like a religious right and they will become unglued if they hear this. They always says it needs more money and more study. Well its been Mediocre for over 50 years. And your right Canada its not do it share of medical research. I have a lot of friends that have flown down to the Mao Clinic.

[Fatmobile]

Sorry to hear about your cancer Hagar,.. I have friends going through this and it can be so stressful;... They don't have a bunny to sky lark in.
We probably shouldn't turn his thread into a debate on universal health care,.. as much as I would like to comment on that topic

[hagar]

SAGA : Is critical thinking CRITICAL ? or say critical JUDGMENTS ? --wow hagar say absolutely--------what is THINKING ? IMHO it is talking with the vocal cord in neutral (thinking aloud ? yes I do that too) , BUT I also think in several lingos.




Maybe that's been the whole problem the whole time. Federal govt is mandating things that people don't necessarily want. Like I started with, this is just mentioned for conversation purposes and necessarily isn't right or wrong. Happy commenting (and hagar is happy you did)


The world needs more people like Hager (good critical thinking skills!) --(-we do have a lot right here -----read my lips). ----


We probably shouldn't turn his thread into a debate on universal health care,.. as much as I would like to comment on that topic (Fatmobile if it is ok with JACK ? --do it)

READ MY LIPS , the day you are informed that you have cancer --- the medical system is seen in a different light. (I am kissing my Kanadian GOLD card , yet again) Yes the Kanadian system is very very costly to the Tax system , BUT we Kanadians get a lot of bang for the dollar. Way way more than our Amerikan friends -get for theirs.

Yes I know about the MAYO clinic , further I say, you have the money ? by all means GO.

The wonders of the VW Turbo Diesel 1.6 L engine ? NOTHING even comes close.

It has a Heat Exchanger Coolant to Oil and Oil to Coolant and a torsion damper on crank .

Not to forget Economicks of Scale ,, more dieselpower for SMALL cars than anything --look at production numbers , if they do not blow your socks off ----you are bare footed. , IMHO.

hagar.

[Fatmobile]

We probably shouldn't turn his thread into a debate on universal health care,.. as much as I would like to comment on that topic (Fatmobile if it is ok with JACK ? --do it)

Sorry Hagar, I was thinking you wouldn't want your post turned into a political topic thread,... but since you set me loose:

You won't solve America's health care problems by making someone else pay for it,.. passing the buck to the taxpayer comes right back to you with added costs.
I think medical marijuana is a great example of what's wrong with the system,.. when checking the legal status I found the DEA stateing that it can't be used for medical use because of the rule that prescription drugs must be made from a single synthetic compound that can be reproduced. That leaves all inexpensive natural cures unable to compete.
It's a rigged game where all prescription medications must be man made, must have millions of $$ of research to get to market.
All those dollars were supposed to make drugs safe and effective,.. but we know the approved drugs aren't always safe and/or effective.
They only gaurenteed medications would be profitable,... enough to earn back the huge research dollars plus some.
A cheap cancer cures I've heard of is DCA (dichloroacetate),.. which causes the mitocondria (sp) to begin to grow (suppressed by cancer) once they are allowed to grow like a normal cell they realise the cell is cancerous and cause the cell to self destruct. It has been approved for another illness for over 20 years (can't be patented, any company can make it cheaply) and is proven safe. Large research studies for treating cancer were shut down before they started.
Limiting competition with special rules,.. and driving the price to play so high inexpensive alternatives can't compete,... It's a rigged game and forcing the taxpayer to play will leave us with little control over how much of our hard earned money is squandered on it.
I do think it is changing though. Toxicology could be going the way of bloodletting,.. people are becoming more aware of what a scam it is and how many people are killed by the cure every year.

[hagar]

SAGA : "Critical" thinking ? EH ? but wait , that is only the beginning ------ then comes "Judgment" and "Listening" and "Reading" and more , a lot more.

Does all that apply to Diesel TUNING and Universal medical systems ??? IMHO it does.

minus 13 C for days she is sitting outside NO block-heater and she starts without using cold start device (I forgot to use) ----EH ? hows do you like them Apples ?--------that is the "Ugly Duckling" from Anacortes WA Amerika I am talking about.

At hagars we are up to our Jing-Yang in white water chrystals , and worse ? one can of beer left ----- SO ? time to call "Wonder-Woman" EH ? just did. so now it is time to thaw out the HOT water lines.-----have no fear , hagar knows HOW.

hagar.

[hagar]

SAGA : " Wonder-Woman " true to style , trotted (Waltzed?) from the 101 in the snow , with 24 cans of Pacific Pilsner. --- I swear by ALL the Gods I know about , that I hagar of feeble mind ----absolutely LOVE that creature.

Fatmobile said : You won't solve America's health care problems by making someone else pay for it,.. passing the buck to the taxpayer comes right back to you with added costs.

hagar sez : Fatmobile I partly agree -----BUT you missed the part where Amerikas health care was solved by getting it done on hagars dime --- thousands of Amerikans receives medical treatment in Kanada ----TOTALLY FREE OF CHARGES.

Does hagar complain or object ??? not on your butt I do . I say we were happy to help. as a whole.

IMHO (hagars) the problem can not be solved "Completely" , BUT if we ALL pitch in ? the burden will be lighter ---EH ?.

I hagar will bear any burden (Tax) suffer any hardship ---without complaining if ALL medical needy people are looked after.

Lez zee now Diesel VW ? oh yes I have two engine blocks one 1.5 L NA VW diesel and one BMC type B block ---at one time the British Motor Corporation type B block was the most in numbers in the world----when I compare the two ? I get to think that VW did some heavy copying.

hagar..

[surfcam]

There is a lot to admire about British Engineering. I think it is often over looked because of some the cars they produced were of a lesser quality. The transversal engine, disc brakes, 5 main four cylinder engine just to name a few.

[VW Jon]

Healthcare doesn't have to be so expensive. Look at the price of medications in Canada vs. the US, and how it is illegal (but doesn't stop people) in the US to buy from Canada. The healthcare system in the US is corrupt and excessive. Just because you have health insurance doesn't mean you are covered. The healthcare providers would rather see people die than help them like they are supposed to.

I'd like to be offered the chance to have socialized healthcare, and at least weigh the extra costs vs the current system.

[82vdub]

I'd like to be offered the chance to have socialized healthcare, and at least weigh the extra costs vs the current system.

If you would want to find out how expensive insurance is, just call some health care insurance carriers and ask for a rate for you and also a rate just for your family. Keep in mind that small companies will pay slightly less per person for coverage, and large companies pay even less. However, the real costs are the individual rates you would be quoted.

If you want to find out what socialized medicine would cost, take the above number and use that as a basis. Then, throw in the governments 30-60% waste - I mean management costs to run a program and you figure it out. You'd never ever find out the real cost, just like you don't know the real costs of any tax imposed on any given facet of goods or services. Taxes touch every aspect of a product, so there's a huge amount of money added to cover taxes at every level of involvement.

On the other hand, you will only hear how much less government run health care is going to cost you, the consumer. However, as typical govenment, they will never, ever tell you that you are paying more than you can even come close to guessing at for this service, solely because of their involvement. Government produces no goods or services, thus it has no reason to be cost competitive in a market place. So, their 30-60% management fees can be absorbed into the cost of a program, but you'd never be able to run a business with competition in the real world - at least forever. Just look at GM, Ford, and Chrysler with their production costs that are 63% inflated over Toyota, Honda and Nissan. As everyone knows, they have money problems. It's only a matter of time until you're out of business when your cost of goods are 63% higher than your competitions.

Since government can't really control costs for a given health care system, they have two ways to try to control costs. Limit services, or limit the amount they are willing to pay for those services. Sorry, but if I was a doctor and went into health care because I was smart and wanted to be a doctor, working for $75k a year (or whatever) v's $500k a year (or whatever) would put me right out of their market. You would never get the smartest, most ingenious people in the market with low wages. You will also eliminate most of the profits in the health care industry, and stagnate most, if not all, new drug treatments, research, development and products brought to the marketplace. Thus, you would take one of the world's greatest healthcare systems in the modern free world and turn it into a 3rd world's health care system, at best. IMO, government is a problem to most of what it touches, not any part of any solution.

[vwkook]

I'd like to be offered the chance to have socialized healthcare, and at least weigh the extra costs vs the current system.

IMO, government is a problem to most of what it touches, not any part of any solution.

I couldn't have put it any better, the above being the KEY statement. Anyone whom disagrees with that is fooling themselves immensely.

[VW Jon]

True, but the current overpriced healthcare system is out of control.

[82vdub]

True, but the current overpriced healthcare system is out of control.

IMO, it's out of control only to the extent that the person responsible for receiving the benefit is not directly paying for that benefit. Until the recipient of specific goods and services pays for those goods or services, the receipient really doesn't care how much it costs, because they do not directly pay for it. The change that's needed is to make the person receiving the benefit actually somehow pay for those services, not burying them in someone elses cost that you don't directly see. If you were laying in a hospital and had a slight headache and asked for an aspirin, if you had to give the nurse $8 for that one pill instaed of it showing up on an insurance bill, you'd think twice on how bad your headache was and if you really needed that $8 pill. I've had really bad migrane's in the past and would have paid $100 for a pill to make it go away. But on most occasions, I would not pay $8 for a pill. I'd wait until the pain got worse then spend the money. That's the benefit of having the person directly pay for the services that they receive.

Just think of the massive tax reforms that there would be if every person living in America had to file personal taxes each quarter or each month and write the check to the government for their portion of the tax. The best thing government has going for it, is the tax is paid for by you, but you don't see any bit of it, and only get to take home what you earn after taxes are taken out of your check. Same thing with gas/diesel taxes. If you pumped fuel for $1./gal and get to the window and have to pay an additonal $.50/gal for taxes, you directly know how much you're paying for that tax, but the way it is, there's little resistance to it because you don't know how much it costs.

[idhoho]

Lets see...... Rabbits are made for normal size people. One of my past bosses- a rather rotund man couldn't get the seat belt around his girth. Now, that I have established the VW linkage I want to rant about how folks are not taking responsibility for their own physical condition. How many of us in N. America are obese? What is the cause of it? Eating too much and eating the wrong stuff. Why a tax on cigarettes and alcohol but no tax on sugary drinks? Why does the gov't. continue to legislate morality on some things and not others? Why is it OK to drink but not OK to smoke pot? C'mon the use of meth has greatly increased since the Federal "war on drugs". The "war" has made relatively healthy drugs like cocaine and opium hard to get encouraging the manufacture of cheap crap like meth... at home! Where there is a will there is a way and those that want to get stoned will get stoned.

The US should impose a penalty on those that are obese and reward those folks that take care of themselves. Let the fatty's pay their own way or suffer the consequences. Socialism may not be the answer but neither is the way we Americans are doing it now with a few getting richer and richer under the protection of purchased politicians. Like the drug companies. I would love to never see another prescription drug commercial- bring back booze and cigarettes if the drug companies can advertise so should tobacco and whiskey manufacturers! Fair is fair.

[rabbit_man]

Where there is a will there is a way and those that want to get stoned will get stoned.
Let the fatty's pay their own way or suffer the consequences.

haha, right on. 'course there is some people that get fat easier just cuz they're made that way. But then there are the people that, like you said, eat too much unhealthy stuff......I have very little pity for 'em.

[VW Jon]

True story: A friend of mine, who has good health insurance, was in the hospital following an operation. He likes to find out what everything costs and found out that his insurance was charged $20 for a nurse to bring him one aspirin. This was over ten years ago. The reason health care costs so much in the US is because the hospitals are gouging both insurance companies and individuals. It's the same greed that has this country in its current financial mess.