Project: 1978 VW Rabbit

This is a place for us to share progress on and upgrades to our vw diesels.

Moderator: Fatmobile

What should I do with the 1978 Rabbit?

Cut losses & get rid of it- you bought a lost cause!
0
No votes
Get a inexpensive running diesel engine & get the Rabbit hopping again!
4
50%
Get a rebuildable engine & rebuild it (only way to be sure) & get the Rabbit hopping again!
1
13%
What were you thinking buying it in the first place!? You should have looked closer at it!
0
No votes
It's a CLASSIC VW diesel! Get it HOPPING at all COSTS!!!
3
38%
 
Total votes: 8

VanBoy
Cetane Booster
Posts: 82
Joined: Thu Apr 01, 2010 12:38 am
Location: Pacific Northwest, USA

Project: 1978 VW Rabbit

Post by VanBoy »

Project:
1978 VW Rabbit 4 door Diesel

History
Just purchased off local Craigslist as a non running car. PO overheated and blew the headgasket. Owner took car apart, saw the 'cracks' in the head and decided to get rid of it. Odometer lists 05xxx.0 miles (so it could be 105,000 or 205,000 or more!) Seller was mid 20's male.
Looked at it w/ a friend who knows a little about VW diesels (he owns a Rabbit pickup). Said the head cracks are 'normal', unless they go to the coolant, then it's and issue. Originally I passed on it, but I called back later and offered $175, he countered with $200 (was listed $300 firm). (Some how, this Rabbit gave me a vibe it wanted to come home with me.) Cylinders looked okay, didn't see any ridge.

Info
Engine sticker on car lists it as a 90CID engine (1.5L). Shifter has a 4 speed pattern, but owner says its a 5 speed (and that 5th gear is there). Stated that it books down the highway at a good rate of speed- had it to 80MPH+ once trying to pass a vehicle that wouldn't give.
Body is tan, with some surface rust, one (and possible more) rust through, but is amazingly straight! Unless there is bondo hiding there.... :shock: Has stickers on windshield that state it was in Texas in the last 3 years and the hatch has stickers that infer biodiesel. Or it those stickers could have been there on a different hatch glass (look like it's red under that tan hatch paint).



I've searched the site and have an idea how to ID this engine now (guess it's a matter of getting the right search word). Prior to purchasing this, I had no experience with VW diesels- just helping a friend with his VW cars (gas). I have experience with diesels, as I own a few other diesel vehicles, heavy trucks and tractors. I have NO idea if this is the original 1.5L or maybe a 1.6L. If it's a 1.6L, it sounds like finding a head is simpler then finding one for a 1.5L. I bought it with just an idea of a fuel economical beater/runner. I looked at the info on head gasket removal/replacement, and the important head gasket identification. As well as the info on timing belts. Oh, and the "Bentley" service manual...read about that too.

I guess tomorrow I will go see what engine it has (bringing along a bright light and a stiff wire brush.) Don't think I'll be able to crawl under it, so I'm fortunate the head is off.


About me-
This is my first VW and it's "old". At least I'm older, but not by much. As stated above, I have experience with diesels. I own two 7.3L IDI Ford vans (got one for $700), and a 7.3L PowerStroke Ford van as well as three Cummins powered semi trucks (NTC 290, NTC 350 and a Formula 290 engines) & a 3208 Cat powered straight truck. I'm not afraid to learn- you are NEVER too old to learn! Aside from those, I also have a few John Deere diesel tractors. I can do 'basic' wrenching on engines- starters, alternators, turbos, water pumps, remove/replace whole engines. But I have never had an engine apart (ie heads off/rebuilding whole thing). Unless you count fixing a warped head on a Kohler single cylinder engine :lol: - learned how to 'back yard' repair that flat head with a flat file and fine grit wet/dry- and a thick/flat block of steel.

(If get lucky, it ends up being a 1.6L- so all I do is get a complete ready to drop on head-unless I get a different head and move the valves/cam. So I, then I just count the marks to get the correct thickness head-gasket, get me some new head bolts-or studs.)

I hope to get this Rabbit hopping again (yes, PUN was INTENDED :P ) If it ends up being more wrong, looks like I just wasted two Ben Franklin's and some time and fuel. Wish me luck.....
Last edited by VanBoy on Thu Apr 01, 2010 5:46 pm, edited 4 times in total.
1999 E350 ClubWagon 7.3L Power Stroke
1990 E350 ClubWagon 7.3L IDI x2
1977 Kenworth K100 Cummins NTC-350
1977 IH Transtar II Cummins NTC-290
1977 IH Transtar II Cummins Formula 290 (ongoing project)
1978 VW Rabbit 1.5L (ongoing project)
And a few other gas rigs....
VanBoy
Cetane Booster
Posts: 82
Joined: Thu Apr 01, 2010 12:38 am
Location: Pacific Northwest, USA

Post by VanBoy »

I had a chance to look at it a bit more today. I brought along a digital camera to try to see if I could see the block casting.


The good: :D
I ended up digging in the glove box and under the seats. Amazing what kind of stuff you can find to tell its history. It looks like this Rabbit at one point in it's life was in California- found a receipt that shows the city and mileage back in early 2000. It actually had less then 100,000 miles (or it was on it's second 100,000 aka 200,000) Then it hopped over to Texas for some time after being bought- hence the window tags from the Texas DMV. From Texas, it migrated over to Western Washington (the wet side of the state :wink: ) in 2008 or so. Looks like the owner who brought it to Washington sold it to a friend in central Washington for $50.00!!! And possibly that person sold it to the "kid" I bought it from.

The bad :(
Using the camera, I was able to picture the back of the block where the casting is at. Yes, this engine is a 1.5L, since I only saw the "D" on it, not the D 1.6 that I was "wishing" for. I noticed while straining to take a pic, there was some "green" marks on the back side, I was assuming that it was a coolant leak, or signs of what it leaked from. It wasn't until I got home that I reviewed the pics that I saw it. The middle freeze plug has the "signs" of a crack from the freeze plug going up to the top of the block. The rust on the crack makes it really clear. (I'll try to upload it to another forum I go to... not sure if there is a photo section here, still new :? )

So, I guess this Rabbit has hopped it's last mile. It's little "heart" has a terminal "illness" that is fatal to it. :(


Well, I guess my toe dipping into VW's and VW diesel's has come to an abrupt end- even before it has started. Or has it....

The Crack:

Image




....TO BE CONTINUED.....
1999 E350 ClubWagon 7.3L Power Stroke
1990 E350 ClubWagon 7.3L IDI x2
1977 Kenworth K100 Cummins NTC-350
1977 IH Transtar II Cummins NTC-290
1977 IH Transtar II Cummins Formula 290 (ongoing project)
1978 VW Rabbit 1.5L (ongoing project)
And a few other gas rigs....
bscutt
Turbo Charger
Posts: 1720
Joined: Mon Mar 10, 2003 4:49 pm
Location: Springfield, VA

Post by bscutt »

Well the good part is that 1.5 diesel engines can be had fairly cheap and dropping the motor and transmission isn't very hard. I have a 79 with the 1.5 in it with a documented 114K on it that was left to sit for 11 years. After fluid changes and new brakes, shicks, and a new fuel tank (not installed yet) it runs like a champ.

Go to the VWvortex forum and search the diesel engine classifieds, you might find something cheap to put in there. These engines are fun to work on in spite of the occasional frustrating inaccessble bolt or two. If the body is in decent enough shape to keep, you could have a decent 50+mpg car for under a grand. Parts are cheap on line and also through Jack the forum owner - you do have to watch some of the on line stuff for decent quality but some careful shopping and buying the engine stuff from jack you can get going very affordably. There's also a pretty strong VW diesel presence in the pacific northwest, especially in Oregon and Washington from what I have seen in classified ads over the years so you may be able to connect with people to help you.

In this forum there are tons of guys with lots of hands-on experience with these cars and more resident knowledge than you will find in any book.
Bob

'06 Jetta TDI
'82 Rabbit 1.6NA
Honda, 99 GMC Suburban, '41 Chevy Coupe
VanBoy
Cetane Booster
Posts: 82
Joined: Thu Apr 01, 2010 12:38 am
Location: Pacific Northwest, USA

Post by VanBoy »

Actually, I forgot to mention that it had a Bentley manual in the car!

Options:
1- Cut losses and get rid of it.


2- Find a different engine (as you stated )
a- good used runner
b- used engine to rebuild
c- rebuilt engine ready to go



I have to do more research. I need to read up to see how much of the "accessories" on the 1.5 will work on the 1.6 engine- as in brackets, covers, IP and injectors. If the externals are identical (and as w/ the IP and injectors), then getting a 1.6 to put will be much easier.

I saw a 1.5L Craigslist ad, but it was old. Ad said $100, but as I said, it was old, the system found it, but it was an error page. Another had an ad 1.6 for $500, but motor was already apart. Seller said head was rebuilt but the block still needed to be 'bored'.


More info- I tend not to get rid of things, and have a problem of keeping things when I should give up. What to do.... what to do....

...TO BE CONTINUED...
1999 E350 ClubWagon 7.3L Power Stroke
1990 E350 ClubWagon 7.3L IDI x2
1977 Kenworth K100 Cummins NTC-350
1977 IH Transtar II Cummins NTC-290
1977 IH Transtar II Cummins Formula 290 (ongoing project)
1978 VW Rabbit 1.5L (ongoing project)
And a few other gas rigs....
bscutt
Turbo Charger
Posts: 1720
Joined: Mon Mar 10, 2003 4:49 pm
Location: Springfield, VA

Post by bscutt »

Basically everything on a 1.5 will bolt up to a 1.6 if the 1.6 was from an 81-84. Not 100% sure if that's true for the MKII (85-92) engines but I think it is.
Bob

'06 Jetta TDI
'82 Rabbit 1.6NA
Honda, 99 GMC Suburban, '41 Chevy Coupe
Ira B
Turbo Charger
Posts: 227
Joined: Wed Jul 29, 2009 12:16 pm
Location: Coupeville, Wa

Post by Ira B »

How about a pic of the car?
Diesel Newbedo
surfcam
Turbo Charger
Posts: 1482
Joined: Tue Sep 28, 2004 8:43 pm
Location: Canada Southern Alberta
Contact:

Post by surfcam »

I think two of the biggest weakness of the 1.5 is that they don't make pistons for them anymore and the smaller head bolts causes the head gasket to blow more and crack the block a lot easier. But if you can get them cheap they are a fun engine. They will rev a little higher. The 1.6 has three or four oversized pistons so will out last most people. Unless something craze happens. Like a Mac truck or rod letting go.
99 TDI Jetta (Z1 engine code)
94 Grand Caravan
89 Dodge Gold Stream B class
http://www.antiquedollhouseofpatterns.ca/
Fatmobile
Global Moderator
Posts: 7564
Joined: Wed Oct 30, 2002 10:28 pm
Location: north central Iowa

Post by Fatmobile »

Good eye, on spotting that crack.
1.5s are nice but they lack the torque of a 1.6.
I'd say find a 1.6 block.
The injection pump bracket from the 1.5 won't match with the 1.6 alternator bracket but you might be abale to dril a hole and weld a nut where the 1.6 hole is.
The '79 has the fusebox with the pins on the back,.. they often get hot and melt, especially heater fan pin.
If the instrument cluster is a 1-holer you won't have a temp gauge.
Otherwise I like the '79 headlight setup and the body sound like it might be a solid place to start. Around here, the solid body is the hard part to find.
'91 Golf gasser converted to a 12mm pump, M-TDI.
'84 1.6TD Rabbit with a VNT-15 turbo, still setup to run on vegetable oil.
'84 GTI with 1.7TD pistons and intercooled.
2003 TDI wagon
2000 TDI Jetta.
VanBoy
Cetane Booster
Posts: 82
Joined: Thu Apr 01, 2010 12:38 am
Location: Pacific Northwest, USA

Post by VanBoy »

Ira B wrote:How about a pic of the car?
It never even occurred to me to take a pic of it. It is stored off at a friends place right now..... It was kind of a 'stealth' purchase.... :shock: I truly thought it would just need a gasket or a head at most... :oops: :oops: I guess I should have looked MUCH closer.... I guess if I wasn't green, I would have looked. Is the crack on the center freeze plug area where the 1.5's crack when over heated???

I'm starting to revise the "history". It may have been a Washington car all it's life.... just based out of the West (wet) side of the state. Maybe by the coast because of the surface rust. Mileage could be 205,000 now..... because in 2006, a receipt stated it got IP work done in California when it had 63,000 (or 163,000). Then in 2007, it drove to TX under a different owner (possibly from WA).


As of right now, I'm thinking I will sit back and watch Craigslist to see if a good runner engine pops up.

BUT, I've been looking online for engines and options. I found a site run by GEX International and they have lots of VW stuff. Unfortunately, since the engine is toast, anything I order the core applies... so it adds to the price. It would nearly be $2300 by the time it arrives.... assuming I can use the fuel system & other parts off of the 1.5L Now, the owner of this forum, he lists an 1.6L engine that the end user assembles for $1395. Core is $300, so that would bring is to just under $1700 for a "new" motor (under $2000 shipped I assume). Assuming that I can use the fuel system & other parts from the 1.5L..... His complete engines (turn key) is listed shipped with no core would be about $2700.

I've toyed w/ the idea of making a "frank-in-engine". Order a kit for a turbo (ie piston cooling), but for now, build it as a NA engine. I know NOTHING about how the NA vs Turbo blocks/engines differ. I thought I saw something about oil cooler, but I was thinking that I could add one, one that clamps between the filter that is controlled by a thermostat & piped to a cooler similar to a tranny cooler mounted in front of the rad.

Just ideas.....
1999 E350 ClubWagon 7.3L Power Stroke
1990 E350 ClubWagon 7.3L IDI x2
1977 Kenworth K100 Cummins NTC-350
1977 IH Transtar II Cummins NTC-290
1977 IH Transtar II Cummins Formula 290 (ongoing project)
1978 VW Rabbit 1.5L (ongoing project)
And a few other gas rigs....
VanBoy
Cetane Booster
Posts: 82
Joined: Thu Apr 01, 2010 12:38 am
Location: Pacific Northwest, USA

Post by VanBoy »

Fatmobile wrote:Good eye, on spotting that crack.
1.5s are nice but they lack the torque of a 1.6.
I'd say find a 1.6 block.
The injection pump bracket from the 1.5 won't match with the 1.6 alternator bracket but you might be abale to dril a hole and weld a nut where the 1.6 hole is.
The '79 has the fusebox with the pins on the back,.. they often get hot and melt, especially heater fan pin.
If the instrument cluster is a 1-holer you won't have a temp gauge.
Otherwise I like the '79 headlight setup and the body sound like it might be a solid place to start. Around here, the solid body is the hard part to find.
(I guess I spent too much time typing my above post, you posted before I did.....)

I guess my eye isn't good enough though... should have found it BEFORE buying it. Granted, I wouldn't be here then.....

This is a 1978 model (at least that's what it said on the sticker and title). And yes, it only has one center hole (speedo & fuel) and then "idiot lights" for the other vitals. Actually, an owner made a custom "center cluster" and mounted gauges (no holes cut in dash, rather a board was added and put below.... I'll get a pic eventually). It has full gauges to monitor the engine- water temp, oil pressure, amp gauge, volt gauge(?). I think there was four, maybe five gauges.

As I said, there is surface rust and one rust through on the passenger side windshield pillar, about 1 or 2" from where it meets the fender. I saw some little rust on the bottom of the doors. But w/ being green to VW's, not sure where the concern points are. I'm more worried about the rear axle breaking loose like in the pic you posted about your "Old Blue".

The original round seal beam headlights are LONG gone. Some owner decided to replace the whole thing w/ those halogen kits. Yes, no sealed beam w/ a halogen inside it, but a reflector/lens kit so you just change the halogen bulb. One lens has a crack.... but that's the least of my concerns.

I'm gonna have to crawl under it to look for more cancer.... any particular area to pay extra attention to? (Or just look at your post to get some ideas....)

The more I look at the pic of the crack above, I noticed there are TWO in the picture!!! One is clear, on the right with the rust color. BUT, just on the left of the picture, near the reinforcement casting, it looks like another crack. I wonder..... is that from over heating??? Or maybe block got frozen once.....
1999 E350 ClubWagon 7.3L Power Stroke
1990 E350 ClubWagon 7.3L IDI x2
1977 Kenworth K100 Cummins NTC-350
1977 IH Transtar II Cummins NTC-290
1977 IH Transtar II Cummins Formula 290 (ongoing project)
1978 VW Rabbit 1.5L (ongoing project)
And a few other gas rigs....
Fatmobile
Global Moderator
Posts: 7564
Joined: Wed Oct 30, 2002 10:28 pm
Location: north central Iowa

Post by Fatmobile »

I've never seen a crack like that.
My guess would be they let it freeze without antifreeze in it,
with all those cracks.

Yeah, first place I check is where the rear end bolts to the frame.

Where the control arms bolt to the frame.

Where the outer seat rails meet the edge of the car,.. pinchweld.
A seat will go through the floor if that is bad.
'91 Golf gasser converted to a 12mm pump, M-TDI.
'84 1.6TD Rabbit with a VNT-15 turbo, still setup to run on vegetable oil.
'84 GTI with 1.7TD pistons and intercooled.
2003 TDI wagon
2000 TDI Jetta.
VanBoy
Cetane Booster
Posts: 82
Joined: Thu Apr 01, 2010 12:38 am
Location: Pacific Northwest, USA

Post by VanBoy »

Fatmobile wrote:I've never seen a crack like that.
My guess would be they let it freeze without antifreeze in it,
with all those cracks.

Yeah, first place I check is where the rear end bolts to the frame.

Where the control arms bolt to the frame.

Where the outer seat rails meet the edge of the car,.. pinchweld.
A seat will go through the floor if that is bad.

With the surface rust and that one rust through.... who knows under it. Maybe I did wast $200......

Well, if the car was in TX for a trip or some time and came back to WA.... It is possible the driver/owner added liquid in TX and never checked it when returning to freezing weather.... :cry:
1999 E350 ClubWagon 7.3L Power Stroke
1990 E350 ClubWagon 7.3L IDI x2
1977 Kenworth K100 Cummins NTC-350
1977 IH Transtar II Cummins NTC-290
1977 IH Transtar II Cummins Formula 290 (ongoing project)
1978 VW Rabbit 1.5L (ongoing project)
And a few other gas rigs....
VanBoy
Cetane Booster
Posts: 82
Joined: Thu Apr 01, 2010 12:38 am
Location: Pacific Northwest, USA

Pics you ask.....

Post by VanBoy »

Ira B wrote:How about a pic of the car?

Pics of the patient, the Rabbit..... it's currently being stored at a friends. (In the right side pic, you can see the double doors to the "shop")

As stated, the original sealed lights were replaced with removable halogen bulbs lens kit. It has some "blue" tint in it right now. Fog lights also.
ImageImage

Yup, a hub cap is missing.... dang. (So is the spare.... none!!)
ImageImage

Someone put a biodiesel sticker.... hatch has some "red" paint here and there. So I'm guessing that maybe the rear window was broken and hatch replacment was cheaper then the window. So who knows if the sticker was for this car or the hatch donor..... It says "Rabbit L", don't know what means. No rear wiper, nor is the washing connected.
Image

Some surface rust on the roof. And this is the only rust through I saw.... but the placement!! Man, how will I fix that.... wait... engine first! :cry:
ImageImage

Not much info on engine vitals w/ the OEM....... Oh wait... someone decided they needed more info! It has- water temp, volts, amps, oil pressure and for some odd reason... a vacuum gauge, I think.
ImageImage

Back seat is in great shape....
Image


We looked under the car and we didn't see any rust under there. So I guess it's a go for diesel replacement.....
1999 E350 ClubWagon 7.3L Power Stroke
1990 E350 ClubWagon 7.3L IDI x2
1977 Kenworth K100 Cummins NTC-350
1977 IH Transtar II Cummins NTC-290
1977 IH Transtar II Cummins Formula 290 (ongoing project)
1978 VW Rabbit 1.5L (ongoing project)
And a few other gas rigs....
VanBoy
Cetane Booster
Posts: 82
Joined: Thu Apr 01, 2010 12:38 am
Location: Pacific Northwest, USA

Post by VanBoy »

If the above pics don't work.....

Here is a link to the album they are in.

http://photos.thedieselstop.com/showgal ... user/14078
1999 E350 ClubWagon 7.3L Power Stroke
1990 E350 ClubWagon 7.3L IDI x2
1977 Kenworth K100 Cummins NTC-350
1977 IH Transtar II Cummins NTC-290
1977 IH Transtar II Cummins Formula 290 (ongoing project)
1978 VW Rabbit 1.5L (ongoing project)
And a few other gas rigs....
VanBoy
Cetane Booster
Posts: 82
Joined: Thu Apr 01, 2010 12:38 am
Location: Pacific Northwest, USA

Uh oh... I'm starting to think.....

Post by VanBoy »

:idea: :idea: :idea: :idea: = :?: :?: :?: :?:


Found this:

A turbo "kit" for a 1.6NA of all things.....

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/VW-1-6-D ... ccessories

Seller states it is a TDI exhaust, intake, turbo and short section of down pipe.


I've been reading on here and saw the Quantum 1.6 Turbo engine. I've seen a post or two about using a 1.6 Turbo engine from a Quantum... but a bunch of stuff has to be converted (transverse vs longitudinal).

This post:
vwtyp133 wrote:Yes, the oil pan, oil pump (or at least the pickup for the pump), the belt covering shields, I/P mount, alternator mount, A/C mount, exhaust manifold, turbo bracing, exhaust down-pipe, flywheel, clutch, t/o bearing, starter all need to be changed. Note the location of the turbo oil drain into the Quantum pan, and fabricate a similar entry point for the rabbit pan.

Not really that bad a job, however. Having done the reverse swap, transverse-to-longitudinal, I'd say that the only issues are lining up all the parts, ahead of the actual swap. That done, I put the 2 engines side-by-side on 2 stands & just started flippin' & swappin'.

Although the intake manifolds are the same, the turbocharger's pressurized air output blows into top of the manifold for the Golf/Jetta layout, while for the Quantum, the air enters at the side of the intake manifold. Just move the block-off plate from top to side. Obviously the turbo-to-intake hose is a different part for transverse vs. longitudinal mounting. If you intend to incorporate an intercooler with the TD installation, you'll be looking at fabricating that plumbing anyway, so... no big deal.

The air cleaner setup also varies from the Quantum to the Golf/Jetta, but neither were even close to the '84 Rabbit, gas or diesel, so some adaption/fabrication is necessary.

Side note: there's always someone at the Dasher Owner's Group site http://dog.mp3equipped.com/dog/ looking for a QTD 5-speed, in case you want to sell that to help finance the project.

The Rabbit is several hundred pounds lighter than the Quantum, and the factory TD motor puts the performance very close to the original Rabbit gasser setup, with the fuel mileage potential obviously way beyond the gasser.

Sounds like a very do-able project, with the good news being that parts for the transverse mounting are much more available than for the longitudinal mount VW/Audi models of that vintage. Have fun.


J.R.
SoCal
Please evaluate this idea:
I have a lead on a Quantum engine.... if I get that kit above and install it on the Quantum engine, I won't need to find original 1.6 Turbo transverse engine/exhaust manifolds and turbo, right?

This 78 Rabbit is bare bones. It's just the alternator. I guess I'd have to find a mount for the IP as stated in above post from a 1.6 to convert this Quantum 1.6. I guess what ever parts on the 1.5 won't work, I will have to find from a 1.6.... The oil filter mount, are they the same between the 1.5 and 1.6?

I guess to recoop buying a complete Quantum engine, I could sell the manifolds and other parts not needed.

Heck, maybe I'll even plumb an intercooler if that kit on Ebay is a sound idea.....


"The Rabbit WILL hop again!" :D 8)
1999 E350 ClubWagon 7.3L Power Stroke
1990 E350 ClubWagon 7.3L IDI x2
1977 Kenworth K100 Cummins NTC-350
1977 IH Transtar II Cummins NTC-290
1977 IH Transtar II Cummins Formula 290 (ongoing project)
1978 VW Rabbit 1.5L (ongoing project)
And a few other gas rigs....
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