293 vs 193

[mtran]

Hi
Friend find orig France 293 nozzles(never used from old car ???), but I use 193,what is difference anyone know.Best

[Quantum-man]

Hi
Friend find orig France 293 nozzles(never used from old car ???), but I use 193, what is difference anyone know.Best

Just like us, Bosch, and VW both were on a learning curve. Nozzle numbers changed,
1) simply because of production run mods,
2) Improvements to performance operation.
3) Improvemnts to economy.
4) Improvements to noise levels in an attempt to get away from that dirty old truck image.

As the original economy was good, much development went into methods of pre-squirting to quieten down, and reduce peak pressures.
I believe that quality of nozzle, ie older types from France and Germany are generally better because they have less leakby.
Leakby past the needle only matters, in asmuch as having a balanced set will give the best results, and the more diesel leaking past, the more likely it is that the amount will vary between injectors.
If it varies, the volume of fuel injected will vary between injectors, even if you achieve the other relatively important matching, which is break pressure.
Break presure directly affects timing. Best economy will be achieved by all cylinders syncronized, and adding equal energy to the flywheel. Anything differing, and the cylinders will be pullling/pushing the flywheel differently, and to some finite degree 'fighting' each other... Highest bars are not necceassarily the best. I'll prove it in my thread... .

[mtran]

Thanks man,I worried about amount of fuel,but kook like it`s same

[mtran]

My Fiat 2500 NA,has stock 125 bar and 193, I put 293 can`t see lot of difference.I was about 115 bar before and now I am at 130 bar.
If you promise not to laugh I`ll tell how to adjust press up for 15 bar in 5 sek.Puzzle Corner,another one?Best.

[Quantum-man]

My Fiat 2500 NA,has stock 125 bar and 193, I put 293 can`t see lot of difference.I was about 115 bar before and now I am at 130 bar.
If you promise not to laugh I`ll tell how to adjust press up for 15 bar in 5 sek.Puzzle Corner,another one?Best.

Won't laugh as long as it's not simply tightening the qwap out of the injector
Turning the little spaceship-like piece on the end of the needle would do it

[mtran]

Won't laugh as long as it's not simply tightening the qwap out of the injector
Turning the little spaceship-like piece on the end of the needle would do it [/quote]


I use shave plate " Gellette " of corse,I need OD 9.8 mm,for ID as little as you can 2 mm,watch it`s breakable.
I put BEFORE original shim,than spring than needle etc.1000 km OK.best
ps,Is this count

[DanHoug]

how do you cut the 'shave plates' or razor blades, to fit? great idea!

-dan

[Quantum-man]

Won't laugh as long as it's not simply tightening the qwap out of the injector
Turning the little spaceship-like piece on the end of the needle would do it

I use shave plate " Gellette " of corse,I need OD 9.8 mm,for ID as little as you can 2 mm,watch it`s breakable.
I put BEFORE original shim,than spring than needle etc.1000 km OK.best
ps,Is this count[/quote]

Yep that counts, welcome to the lateral thinkers club.
You don't need the hole in the middle, for the reasons given in my puzzle corner.
I'm running with three of my injectors with pieces of tape measure spring. Initially they gave about 15 bar.
Part of that may be due to opening and shutting back up the injector body, because measuring with a vernier, I'd expected only 10bar.
Not easy to measure thickness because spring is curved. It had seemed to be about 10thou.
I agree always put your shim behind the stronger real one

[Quantum-man]

how do you cut the 'shave plates' or razor blades, to fit? great idea!

-dan

Id simply break pieces off to make a polygon.
I use Octagons
Your injector cannot tell the difference

[mtran]

Hi Mark and Dan
Is it`s counts for membership of club if I steal from Bosch guy (I loved that,they a so hard campare with hagar and other on this forum)Honestly I`ll hardly get that idea by myself.
I dont know what "Octagon" is,I use this and it`s eazy to do it for biger hole.

I know Mark about your post of middle hole, but when I put shave shims I was on low Cu rings so next time.As I understand now your injectors are out of middle hole, than with shave shims is eazy because that little one is tricky to pinch throw.Best
ps. what is qwap
tool

[Fatmobile]

Not sure knowing what qwap means will help your english,..
I think he meant crap but profanity is frowned upon here so even though crap is mild; he self censored,
with a word I've never seen spelled that way

An octagon is a 2-dimensional object with 8 equal sides,.. kinda round, ha.

[Quantum-man]

Not sure knowing what qwap means will help your english,..
I think he meant crap but profanity is frowned upon here so even though crap is mild; he self censored,
with a word I've never seen spelled that way

An octagon is a 2-dimensional object with 8 equal sides,.. kinda round, ha.

Thanks Fats. It was nearly 4am when I started getting Qwerty written on my forehead

[mtran]

Hi guy
hm like you play here guys':twisted:',I know what octagon is but is this a tool as I used,I only see round one like on a picture.
Quantum-man do you have middle hole on your driving shims ( in car)?
Fats you missed to again improve my English by telling me name of my tool( taste # test ).':D'

[Quantum-man]

Hi guy
hm like you play here guys':twisted:',I know what octagon is but is this a tool as I used,I only see round one like on a picture.
Quantum-man do you have middle hole on your driving shims ( in car)?
Fats you missed to again improve my English by telling me name of my tool( taste # test ).':D'

There is a hole in the original shim, but the additional piece I made does not.
The injector springs have notches in them which allow diesel to escape even if spring fully compresses. Full description in my puzzle thread.
I thought there may be an issue cutting spring steel with hard steel

[mtran]

Now I know Bosch are play with as:

193 = 293 = 1510 = 211

all are same,I didn`t try on motor yet,but I can bet it will work