long story short, i must have screwed up my first clutch install
car was idling on the driveway for a good 10 minutes when i heard some shaking on the tranny end, then BAM! came to a dead stop. i noticed i could move the flywheel away from the engine through the inspection so i dropped the tranny today and posted some pics below
so what i want to know is what i did wrong when installing that pressure plate? i used the old bolts to align the new pressure plate install, and i slowly used a mallet in a star pattern to seat it. once it felt good to me i put the new bolts in and slowly tightened in a star pattern until they firmed up. then i slowly torqued them all to 22 ft. lbs jumping around. then i did the 1/4 turn to each to finish it off.
also what is the reality of the crank? is it even possible the threads are ok and i could attempt to clean and fill that mess and install a new pressure plate?
Torque value: pressure plate to crankshaft: 55 ft lb and 1/4 turn. Use new bolts, and thread locking compound.
Oddly enough my Bentley lists in the procedure for clutch replacement, 22 ft lbs, and 1/4 turn. The torque specifications at the end of the chaper list 55 ft lbs and 1/4.
Did you use thread locking compound? Sounds to me like they rattled loose. Lots of vibrations in these engines.
And honestly, I'd trust the 55 ft lbs + 1/4 turn over the 22 lbs and quarter turn.
I did the torque routine over a long period of cranks, star pattern, and did not add extra loctite? I got the bolts from germanautoparts.com and they come coated with blue stuff. You can see the stuff in the closeup crank picture. Was I supposed to add extra? If so what type?
I know that getting the old bolts off was crazy. I had to use a breaker bar a bunch of times in a star patten to slowly and evenly break them free. No way could I do it with a regular ratchet.
Now that I look closer I guess the 2 bolts that backed out did the most damage, then wobbled and chewed things up and the rest snapped clean off.
Everything started smooth, there was no wobbling, but obviously I didn't catch it in time.
And now I have to question the torque values. Each one of those bolts felt snug with a hand ratchet towards the end as things mated, and then I moved to the torque wrench.
I'm willing to bet they backed out. At least judging from the damage thats what it looks like happened. I've never really been a huge fan of preloctited bolts.
Probably wouldn't hurt to add extra for insurance.
Why would an engine idling snatch those bolts out as if you'd revved the engine and dropped the clutch with the car parked up against a wall?
Something not right IMO.
Even finger tight bolts should not be a problem on an idling engine, as they're not carrying much weight...
Did something happen to your gearbox?
"I'm not here to help... I'm here to Pro-Volke"
Be like meeee...Drive a Quantum TD
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7 Quantae in 20 years; 4 dead and 3 TD's still alive [2 wagons & 1 fastback] oh and a GTD )
Oh boy....here we go. Count to ten because this ain't going to make you happy.
My Bentley sez 72 ft. pounds and nothing about additional quarter turns. I've always used new bolts and liberal amounts of blue Locktite....and no problems.
Would I now use that crank? No. I would not trust those threads anymore. Additionally, you started out with a fairly balanced crankshaft. I am not sure what you have now.
In a recent post (if I recall correctly), you have stated that your trans was leaking fluid post clutch install. Looking at the trauma which was taking place in the vicinity of these photos....I would not be a bit surprised if your input shaft on that trans is no longer straight.
If it were me, (and this is my opinion), I would plan on obtaining a different crank and rear seal holder and, maybe, seeking a different trans as well.
I would also take a good look at the flywheel and his teeth and certainly go with new flywheel bolts this time around, too.
Sorry to do this on X-mas eve.....but, this is my take.
The center-core beam melter has been given a new lease.
This is a first, I've never seen anything like it.
Only thing I can think of is lock tite doesn't stick well on oil.
I always spray the oil from the bolt holes and dry them before using it.
Early one, without shoulders, weren't stretch bolts, didn't need 1/4 turn, did need lock-tite.
I wouldn't use that crank again either.
'91 Golf gasser converted to a 12mm pump, M-TDI.
'84 1.6TD Rabbit with a VNT-15 turbo, still setup to run on vegetable oil.
'84 GTI with 1.7TD pistons and intercooled.
2003 TDI wagon
2000 TDI Jetta.
damac : you have hagars sympathy. . This is the worst case I ever seen. . Are we dealing with a 85 1.6L Turbo ?.. If so that crank is worth repairing .(costly , must be done at Professional machine shop). I would go to an Aircraft shop).
My two cents park it and start reading this forum, it is ALL here.. Next time use lock-plates for bolts. But I agree with Fatmobile and Dakotakid. , not to use that crank again sorry. By the way IMHO that is a fine engine .
coke wrote:Torque value: pressure plate to crankshaft: 55 ft lb and 1/4 turn. Use new bolts, and thread locking compound.
Oddly enough my Bentley lists in the procedure for clutch replacement, 22 ft lbs, and 1/4 turn. The torque specifications at the end of the chaper list 55 ft lbs and 1/4.
I'd review that.
My brand-new Bentley (hardcover), has 22ftlb for the pressure-plate: by the procedure and the chart at end.
It also shows 15ftlb for the flywheel-to-PP in both places.
(The only 55ftlb value shown is for the transaxle-to-engine M12 bolts.)
@damac
Bummer. Suggest inspiring music and good friends. Sometimes stuff happens... in the big picture, it's just a car; not your loved ones.
Thanks for posting the carnage... a thorough postmortem should give us some ideas. Definitely check the tranny-shaft (if it's still there).
Have a nice day.
'91 Jetta ECOdiesel TD - clean & complete (less motor/tranny) for sale
Apparently there was some confusion when Bentley published their manual. Mine is old, but not old old. Its probably a 2nd revision or something.
I double checked twice, and it indeed listed in the torque values at the end of the chapter, 55 and 1/4 turn. But I will admit, and this is purely out of habit for me since I never owned a torque wrench, the only bolts I torque with a torque wrench are the head bolts, for the initial process. After that its all 1/2, 1/4, 1/4.
I haven't had a bolt break or fall out on me yet, either.
I'm not convinced the clutch/flywheel is the heart of the problem... If your engine stopped dead while running, your flywheel's momentum could break it off.
Have a nice day.
'91 Jetta ECOdiesel TD - clean & complete (less motor/tranny) for sale
If you look closely at the two photo's of the crank, you can see some rusting where the bolts broke. To me it looks like 4 bolts were cracked when you put them in, and then they broke.
The other two bolt holes in the flywheel look like the flywheel was working itself back and forth for a while.
When the engine is at an idle wouldn't there be quite a lot of pulsations, especially if the flywheel is loose and not absorbing them.
Just my two cents worth.
92 Jetta TD, 400K, Km
82 GM Class A Motorhome with new 6.5 N/A 90K
94 GM 3500 Dually 6.5 475K, Km
Brutal pictures for sure... That will give me nightmares should I ever take on a clutch job myself. Actually it'll give me nightmares regardless of WHO does my clutch when the time comes.
How did the bolts feel going in? Any chance they cross threaded? If they weren't going in straight and then bottomed out on an angle that could definitely cause them to snap without all that much torque. That's my guess anyhow.
I'm with hagar - a very good machine shop could probably salvage the crank, but it would be big $$$ for sure. The oil seal is definitely trashed too. IMHO the cost of the machine work would exceed the cost of another crank.
-Bryn
1994 Jetta with a 1988ish 1.6TD - Jezebelle Jetta
1994 Jetta - 1.8 Monomotronic - Gertrude Jetta
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