NA --> ECO Conversion + Turbo Rebuild Kit

[the vegenator]

I know little about Turbos, but a local shop told me they had a hydraulic head with all the headers and turbo attached. Been sitting on their shelf for a while now.

Turbo has a lot of play in the shaft. Rebuild kits are $40. Is it worth the effort? Or better to find a turbo off a 300D, saab or volvo in a junk yard?

I tried searching the forum, but the word turbo is excluded in the search query!

[Quantum TD]

Depends on the turbo that comes with the head. If it's an ACTUAL ECO turbo, it will be a K14. They are quite desirable depending on the application. The upside is quick spooling. The downside it a lower top-end RPM for boost (cuts out about 3000 RPMS).

The T3 was the most common turbo used on VW diesels. Technically, it's the same as the Mercedes 5 and 6-cylinder turbo, but the cold-side of the turbo looks different to me, and I've never pulled either apart to compare. I see those all the time at my local pick and pull for $40.

The T3 is more suited to highway driving at higher RPMs. Some people love them. I'll find out on my Quantum once I get it up and running this summer.

The last option is the K03, which was common on the AAZ motor. Another small turbo, it spools up quick. But again, it tops out about 3500. Better than the K14, also water-cooled as well, but still kinda small if max power is your goal.

A "best of both" might be the K24, K26 or K24/K26 hybrid. I've never actually seen one of these stock on a VW exhaust manifold. They were common on the Audis and Porsches and use a huge flange. Performance guys rave about the hybrids. I've never personally seen/run one.

[the vegenator]

Great info - thanks!

Is there some kind of marking on the turbo that says what it is? These parts are in my home town a few hours away from me, so all the exchanges have happened over the phone so far.

If this turbo seems like a good model, how hard is it to rebuild? Are there how-tos on this site? Like I said, I looked...

Based on the different models that you listed, I think the T3 would be my pick. I feel like the 1.6 NA is fine running around in town, but I'm worried about highway travel over mountains of Eastern Kentucky or Pennsylvania... I'd rather not be pulling 30 mph with a line of cars behind me. Also, the ability to pass cars on 2 lane highways would also be nice!

The shop said they likely have everything needed for a full turbo add-on, so I'll see how that pans out. would be nice to get everything all at once.

[TylerDurden]

Don't underestimate the power of a tuned 1.6NA... My 89NA Jetta pulled every bit as good as my 86TD Jetta - Kentucky hills tested at interstate speeds.

A turbo how-to would be really nice.

[82vdub]

And don't forget the difference between the 4 and 5 speed transmissions. To pull a hill in a 4 speed, you've got to drop down to 45-50 MPH and run in 3rd with the engine screaming. In the 5 speed, you can drop to 4th and try to pull the hill at 65.

[the vegenator]

I'm used to downshifting, and my ACH tranny has always treated me well. But I've always noticed a marked difference between this jetta and my last.

I only know a NA setup, but given the option and all the components for $50, I may as well consider it. Once I get the turbo, I'll try to get a sense of what it takes to tear these apart, documenting the process as I go along. If it's a successful rebuild, I'll gladly post the steps.

[the vegenator]

Found out its a Garret T3, based on this part number: 068 145 703 BB

Low end rebuild kits are $30, but I found a performance rebuild kit for $100 here - http://dieselicio.us/kits.html (doesn't look like a competitor, since it's turbo rebuild kits only). Does anyone have experience with these folks?

Or, just find a good turbo from a junk yard. Same price as a kit, no extra rebuild labor.

I pulled this list from a NCdubs forum. Left out domestics, just kept some foreigns that I thought could be relevant.... I'm assuming "GAR TA03" or "TB03" refers to the T3 turbos...?:

AUDI-Europe 200 88 2.2L KKK K26
AUDI-Europe 200 88-91 2.2L KKK K24
AUDI-Europe 200 Quattro 91 2.2L KKK K24
AUDI-Europe 5000 80-88 2.2L KKK K26
AUDI-Europe 5000 Diesel 2.0L 88 KKK K24
AUDI-Europe 5000 Quattro 82-88 2.2L KKK K26
AUDI-Europe S4 Quattro 92-94 2.2L KKK K24
AUDI-Europe S4 Biturbo/tt-180 99 2.7L/1.8L KKK K03
AUDI-Europe TT-225hp 99 1.8L KKK K04
AUDI A3, A4, A6, Cabriolet 1.8L,/1.9L diesel GAR GT-15

BMW 324TD/524TD 83-86 GAR TB0324
BMW 745I 84-86 KKK K27

MERCEDES 300D, SDT, TD 78-84 3.0L GAR TA0301
MERCEDES 300SDL 78-83 3.0L GAR TA0301
MERCEDES 300SDL (Calif.) 86-87 3.0L GAR TB0359

SAAB 9000 (16V Intercooled) 87-88 2.0L GAR TB0356
SAAB 900 (16V Intercooled) 87 2.0L GAR TB0339 (Oilcld)
SAAB 900 (16V Intercooled) 84-86 2.0L GAR TB0339 (Oilcld)
SAAB 9000 (16V Intercooled) 85-86 2.0L GAR TB0343
SAAB 900 (8V, APC) 82-84 2.0L GAR TB0321

VOLVO 200 82-84 2.3L GAR TB0313
VOLVO 740 89-93 2.3L MIT TD04H
VOLVO 740 87-89 2.3L MIT TD05
VOLVO 760 89-93 2.3L MIT TD04H
VOLVO 760 87-89 2.3L MIT TD05
VOLVO 780 85-87 2.3L GAR TB0363
VOLVO 780 90 2.3L MIT TD04H
VOLVO 780 87-89 2.3L MIT TD05
VOLVO 940 91-93 2.3L MIT TD04H
VOLVO 200 Watercooled Upgrade 82-84 2.3L GAR TB0368
VOLVO 740 (Oil Cooled) 83-85 2.3L GAR TB0326
VOLVO 740 (Watercooled) 85-87 2.3L GAR TB0363
VOLVO 760 (Oil Cooled) 83-86 2.3L GAR TB0326
VOLVO 760 (Watercooled) 85-87 2.3L GAR TB0363

And since I'm already rippin' other info from that forum, here's some more:

Volvo 240's and other older turbo models have an oil cooler setup that will work if you remove your factory oil cooler and shorten your filter nipple a bit. you can get the thermostatic plate, hardlines, flexlines, the cooler and even a duct if its not rusted off. you can rebend the hardlines to work or have new lines made. then get the coolant lines off a CIS mk2 to delete the factory oil cooler.

volvos and saabs have Bosch diverter valves, make sure the diaphram that opens them isn't ripped inside. suck on the line on the small nipple and it should open under vacuum.
some volvos and saabs have T3 turbo's most are to small for much use but if you need a spare turbine housing or want to try some different A/R's its a good source. nissan 300zx's as well as merkur xr4t's and mustang 2.3's have T3 sixty trim turbo's which are nice for 8v's. for the nissan one you will need a ford turbine style housing previously mentioned off a saab or volvo.
audi 5000T's have many fun parts that can be used, the turbo, a K26 is slightly larger than a T3 60 trim. the exhaust manifold can be cut down one runner to fit on an 8V. Its got a decent k1 wastegate, a fairly good size intercooler core, girling 60 brakes which are dual piston and fit on 11" rotors.

[surfcam]

I guess while we are at this turbo identifying mode. I have this turbo that a friend dropped off after cleaning this garage out. It looks like a bit of a monster.

ROTO-MASTER INC.
RAJAY PRODUCT
MODEL # 3AAIEB60B1

[the vegenator]

Any idea what it came off of?

[surfcam]

He though it was from an old Mazda (Ford) four cylinder diesel truck. I kick around the net a found this.

My corvette is a 78 Pace Car with the L82 engine at 220 HP. The carb. is a Rodchester Quadrajet with custom made stainless steel tubular headers as well as stainless steel exhaust pipes and the pipe leading into the Turbo. The intake manifold is polished aluminum but I can't identify a maunfacturer. The Turbo is a "ROTOMASTER", RAJAY PRODUCT manufactured in North Hollywood, CA. Modle # 3AA1EE10B1.

[surfcam]

He though it was from an old Mazda (Ford) four cylinder diesel truck. I kick around the net and I found this.

My corvette is a 78 Pace Car with the L82 engine at 220 HP. The carb. is a Rodchester Quadrajet with custom made stainless steel tubular headers as well as stainless steel exhaust pipes and the pipe leading into the Turbo. The intake manifold is polished aluminum but I can't identify a maunfacturer. The Turbo is a "ROTOMASTER", RAJAY PRODUCT manufactured in North Hollywood, CA. Modle # 3AA1EE10B1.

[the vegenator]

Corvette, eh!? The Kentucky boy in me would love a way to fit that under the hood. Maybe cut out the firewall to make room for it!

Now that you know what it is, I'm sure you could get a little money for that on eBay.

[demon]

I have the K24 on my 84 Jetta w/ a 5spd. Even stock settings with 300k it was a rocket, compared to my dad's 81 NA Rabbit 4spd.

Beware! If you plan on rebuilding an old turbo, be prepared to run into multiple rusty broken off bolts and studs in the housing. It can be a royal PITA to extract them without retapping the threads. I have 2 K24's sitting at the machine shop right now waiting to have the studs milled out and retapped.

Once thats done, its easy to rebuild them. Just scribe a line on the compressor end of the shaft and the compressor wheel for balancing. Then take pictures and notes as you take everything apart in the correct order.

A great online resource for the K24 is "Jakes K24 Rebuild", which is found on another popular vw diesel forum, or just google it.

Good luck.

[the vegenator]

Good to know, good to know. I'll search for that rebuild thread, for my own education.

As it turns out, I think I found found a COMPLETE eco diesel setup at an amazing price. I'll post updates in my engine-rebuild thread if that works out.

[the vegenator]

I think I lucked out and struck gold (fingers crossed)!

I went down to the Volksdoktor shop in Louisville (a repair shop) where they had an Eco-Diesel with a dead engine. The owner let me pull off a ton of parts, including a hydraulic head, K14 turbo, the manifolds, hoses, lines, air filter box, oil cooler, filter flange, and tons of mounts, wiring harnesses, and spare parts. All for $400.

I took the head to a machine shop for inspection - I'll find out if it's in as good of shape as I thought within the next day or two. The turbo has no shaft play at all, and it spins smoothly. There is oil residue in the hose to the intake manifold, as well as where the tube that draws air into the turbo. Could it have been excessive blowby? Or maybe a blown oil seal?

I'm curious as to how I should approach this. I don't want to put everything together and end up spewing oil out of my tail pipe. I should mention that there was a good coating of oil covering just about everything on the top end of the engine.

Also, I could use a primer on certain parts of the turbo, how they affect boost pressure, and how adjustments can be made. I suppose some googling would do the trick, but specific tips on these K14 turbos would be welcome.