IP Pump Timing/Fuel Issue?

[demon]

So after waiting for 3 months to get my turbo housing back from the machine shop, I finally got it together,and got the rebuilt motor and trans installed. She looking bitchin'.

I set all the timing; flywheel arrow mark/tdc #1, cam lobes are up/locking plate slides in, IP pulley indented mark is lined up to the bracket mark/pin locks in the IP bracket, and IP timing mark is lined up to IP bracket.

I figured I could just fire her up, then set the timing by ear, instead of buying the $100 dial indicator now, and then drive it 30 miles to the shop that has one and set it perfect. (He won't rent the tool out...some d-head broke his last one.)

To prime the IP I loosened the OUT line on the IP, removed my clear Supply line coming from the filter, filled it with fuel until it bled all air out the OUT line then tighten it up.

I think she's getting plenty of fuel (no bubbles present and no bubbles/ just fuel when I loosen the injector lines). She fires for a second or two, after crazy ass amounts of cranking (like 30 seconds), runs for 2 seconds jumps to 1000 rpm and dies. Big ass puff of white smoke out the tailpipe when she comes to life!

Could my IP timing be way off?
Or is it still a air/fuel issue?
Any other suggestions?
Thanks.

[82vdub]

Make sure the glow plugs are actually operating, not just getting power. If they don't glow, then they don't work. I would probably try advancing the IP and see what happens, and if that doesn't work, retard it a bit to make sure. To make sure you have reliable fuel supply, right up a jar of fuel with a filter directly to the IP and elevate the jar. That removes almost everything for fuel delivery issues as there should be reliable fuel supply to the IP. Keep trying, it could be something pretty simple.

[demon]

Thanks. I've been trying the old "Mt. Dew fuel can" trick with no luck either. I'll check the glowplugs too.

I just found a friend that has a whole Bosch IP dial indicator set for multiple pumps including his Dodge diesel. So we'll try setting it correctly if it fits my pump.

Can't wait to get her ripping. It's been 9 months and I'm going through major diesel withdrawals!!!

[demon]

Seems to be a IP timing issue so far. It was too retarded. I loosened the pump and twisted it back and she smoothed out.

Even though she smoothed out, fires right up, and idles with no smoke...as soon as I work the throttle, she doesn't go past 1000 rpm and blows white smoke (unburnt vaporized fuel) again.

I used tawney's tip for making a dial indicator adaptor, and I'm about to set the IP timing to what the bentley says. Then I'll check the cold start lever again, to make sure its adjusted right.

Another question: Upon setting the Mechanical Timing of the cam/crank/IP pulley, I noticed that the notch/mark (looks factory) on the backside of the IP pulley doesn't exactly line up with the factory mark in the IP bracket when my locking pin is installed. It looks to be about 1 or 2 teeth off. Is this normal? Or did some d-head put that mark on there?

Thanks guys.

[demon]

I just check the mechanical timing. With the locking pin installed, the pump pulley mark is a half tooth off from lining up with the bracket notch.

Is this normal?

Thanks.

[82vdub]

The line on the IP pully is only to indicate which would be the correct locking pin hole to line up with the locking pin hole in the IP bracket. Some pullys have two holes in them, and if the pully isn't marked somehow, someone would have a 50/50 shot at getting it set right. It plays no other role other than to indicate "which side is up" type indication.

[demon]

Ok. Thanks. That makes sense. I just set her to 1.00mm. I'll keep you posted. Thanks again.

[damac]

What is the history of your pump and injectors?

Even on my worst setup of old injectors and leaking pumps with other issues I have never experience what you are describing if I am reading it right.

If I was able to get the car to idle normally with a good sound to it and it wasn't smoking white and wasn't too marbly, that meant I was close to timing it. I saw a bad set of old injectors that couldn't be timed at idle to get rid of the smoke show before the nailing came.

But in all those instances after I initially filled the pump with fuel, and got it running for a couple minutes to purge most of the air, the throttle would react. My idle is set around 900 rpm so 1000 is like nothing, it sounds like you are hitting some physical wall inside the pump.

I have had retarded timing and air in the system on initial start before where the thing barely fired off, then smoked and missed and it would not smooth out with the pedal but would still try and rev out and die.

I have never seen anything like you describe if the air is purged and the timing is so close by ear, in which you are pretty close to the book settings.

Did somebody take the top off your pump and mess with the governor shaft?

[TylerDurden]

You might try bottle feeding again, now that the timing is set.

A fuel line restriction could still cause air to get directly sucked into the IP via a leaky seal or the inlet fitting in the first stage.

[demon]

Still the same problem.

The car showed 280K on it when I got it. She ripped, and I put 25K miles on it before the head gasket went.

I rebuilt the 1.6 TD motor. New bearings, rings, oil pump, head, rebuilt turbo, etc.

The pump and injectors worked awesome when removed. Never had the pump apart or turned any screws.

Pump Solenoid works good too.

Bottle/Gravity fed supply line hooked up, and all mechanical timing is exactly on. I set the pump timing to 1.00mm. And triple checked everything...if not more.

She fires right up, sounds a little marblely at an idle.

Get on the throttle and it goes to 1000 rpm and she dies belching smoking white. (smoke smells like vaporized unburnt fuel)

I cracked each injector line while idling, each one seems to be firing and she coughed when they sucked air.

Seems to still be a timing issue, or like she's hitting the govenor at 1000rpm.

I'm very perplexed on this one. Thinking about pulling the injectors...again, and having them pop tested/replaced. I hate replacing the heat shields. I already went thru 8 of them. LOL.

[TylerDurden]

Is it possible the in-bolt and out-bolt got swapped?

Sounds like a pump issue: Maybe dynamic advance sticking or stuck lift pump vane... A stuck advance would be retarded at higher rpms. A stuck or poor lift section might permit cavitation at higher RPMs.

Does the cold-start lever have the normal resistance? Does the resistance change with higher RPM?
You could deliberately advance the timing too far for normal idle and see if the higher rpms are better (5 degrees?).

[demon]

There's no way I got the banjo bolts mixed up.

Good idea with the advance. Seems like my cold start lever is working fine, but has some resistance.

Maybe I'll just remove the pump and injectors and have them rebulit by a Bosch tech. I really don't wanna tear that thing apart myself.

I just called my local Bosch tech and he quoted me $700-800 to rebuild the pump!!! F-that!

[82vdub]

I was going to say that to have a Bosch shop rebuild it, it'll cost you some good money. That price is also probably just labor, not including any parts that would need to be replaced (if any do).

Jack, the owner of this site, sells rebuilt IP's for reasonable money. He pays for the costs of this forum, so any business you can send his way it just helps keep this forum around.

[Fatmobile]

You say there are no air bubbles in the fuel line coming into the pump,
can you see if fuel is flowing when running/cranking?

[Una]

I've heard of that kind of problem when people try to swap in bigger injectors. You sure someone didn't just swap out the injectors for something a couple sizes larger? I'm still learning the fine details of how a diesel works, but is it possible that bigger injectors are simply flooding the motor at anything off idle? I suppose the injection pump could have a fault that would do the same thing..