Setting Pump timing?

[PDA1]

I need a clearly written procedure to re-time my Diesel's injection pump.

I'm going to replace the passenger side engine mount.

From what I read the timing pump will have to be removed.

I can take all of the parts off and re-install the engine mount but setting the injection pump always has terrified me, I've never done it but have read a lot about the procedure (clamp the cam down, pin the pump sprocket, TDC on flywheel).

I assume I'll need 5 tools for the procedure- cam clamp, dial indicator, some sort of insert for the dial indicator to fit into the pump with, injection pump pin.

Where do I get all of those tools?

Do any of you have a procedure for setting the timing from start to finish?

[82vdub]

Sounds like you're new to the VW diesel world. I'd highly suggest you buy a Bentley repair manual. It's the bible for work on these VW engines. You'll save more money over the lifespan of your vehicle with the cost of that repair manual. The entire process is covered in the manual. I'm sure you can search the forum and find the procedure to replace the timing belt and time the engine. But, I'm suggesting that you get the proper repair manual and read that, because it's important.

I will also say that as long as you get the crank to cam timing correct so the valves don't hit the pistons, the injector pump (IP) timing is actually really easy. These VW diesel engines will typically only run within a few degrees of what the proper timing setting should be, and if you use your ears, you can time these engines without the expensive dial indicator tool.

While you wait for your Bentley manual to arrive, search the forums and start reading. It's got a lot of information in it that the Bentley doesn't cover.

[PDA1]

Loved your comments!!

New to VW? Sort of- I've only been driving my pickup for 31 of it's 31 years. Swapped too many engines to even remember.

Had 3 Rabbit Diesel 4 doors.

Bentley manual? I got that 33 years ago and it's the worst written manual I've ever seen. The pictures are horrible.
To give you an idea, in the section on adjusting the injection pump timing, the book mentions nothing about locking the cam at TDC.

I found the timing procedure which is the clearest so far;


http://vincewaldon.com/index.php?option ... &Itemid=28

[82vdub]

Sorry, from something in your post, I thought you were all new to this and a tad younger

Vince has some excellent writeups on VW things on his website.

If you are mechanically inclined, doing this work isn't that difficult. There's the few things specific to a diesel, but most of it is common auto repair knowledge.

[PDA1]

Yeah, I know.

I was hoping to run off to Harbour Frieght and buy the XYZ dial indicator all purpose adapter rather than blowing $60 or so.

Timing by ear? I heard about that procedure but have never and won't ever try it.

What I'm really trying to do is only replace the passenger side engine mount. If I could do that without working with the belts and pump I'd do it.

[TylerDurden]

I suggest the recent editions of the Bentley... they have been updated in the past three decades and have the information.

Swapped many engines but never set the timing? You're missing the fun.

[PDA1]

I just ordered a timing tool kit from some place in North Carolina (or was it South C?) for about $80. Come with belt tightner, dial indicator and adpater for the timing plug, Cam shaft lock.

Another I don't want to mess with is the valve clearance. Maybe next time.

[mtran]

You're missing the fun.

Ha,ha LOT of fun,till you start to adjust that is f..... fun.

[82vdub]

Another I don't want to mess with is the valve clearance. Maybe next time.

When's the last time this has been done? When the valvetrain wears on these engines, the valve clearance gets less and less, to the point where the valves never fully close and then you start to burn valves and the head. The hardest part (for me) is the time it takes bending over the hood, and the math involved to calculate one shim thickness, add/subtract another shim thickness equals something in the range of what clearance it should be. If you do the math wrong and put the wrong shim in, when you check it with your feeler gauge (which you should to double check your math), you will either prove or disprove that it's clearance is within spec. If it's not, you put a different shim in. On the mechanical ability skill level, I would put this as less technically/mechanically challenging then changing the timing belt and timing the engine. Thinking about it, one would think it's quite complex, but actually after doing it, it's not that difficult.

[CarlosA]

Another I don't want to mess with is the valve clearance. Maybe next time.

When's the last time this has been done? When the valvetrain wears on these engines, the valve clearance gets less and less, to the point where the valves never fully close and then you start to burn valves and the head. The hardest part (for me) is the time it takes bending over the hood, and the math involved to calculate one shim thickness, add/subtract another shim thickness equals something in the range of what clearance it should be. If you do the math wrong and put the wrong shim in, when you check it with your feeler gauge (which you should to double check your math), you will either prove or disprove that it's clearance is within spec. If it's not, you put a different shim in. On the mechanical ability skill level, I would put this as less technically/mechanically challenging then changing the timing belt and timing the engine. Thinking about it, one would think it's quite complex, but actually after doing it, it's not that difficult.

All of that, and its mandatory on these engines! I have adjusted my valves twice in 5000 miles and only had to correct minor changes, but super important as said above.

[TylerDurden]

When the valvetrain wears on these engines, the valve clearance gets less and less, to the point where the valves never fully close and then you start to burn valves and the head.

I can't see how that could happen.

[82vdub]

Which point, the clearance gets less and less as the valvetrain wears, or the valves and head may burn if the valves don't close all the way?

When the valve and seat wears, the valve will seat further and further into the valve seat area. In essense, the valve slowly rises in the head over time moving the valve and shim closer to the cam. When the shims rise towards the cam, this lessens the clearance between the cam and valve shim.

Part of proper cooling of the head of a valve is that it is in contact with the head, allowing heat to dissipate into the head area and removed by the circulating coolant. If the valve remains open a little bit, the head of the valve will heat up more than normal, and can lead to pronounced wear of the head of the valve by the hot gasses passing the edge of the valve. Ever see a valve with a large chunk eaten away?

[TylerDurden]

Got it.

Sure, I've seen burned valves, usually from backyard tuners overdoing it.

It's been oh.... twenty years since I did a puck-change. I'm surprised the valves recede faster than the pucks wear.

[Quantum-man]

Yeah, I know.

I was hoping to run off to Harbour Frieght and buy the XYZ dial indicator all purpose adapter rather than blowing $60 or so.

Timing by ear? I heard about that procedure but have never and won't ever try it.

What I'm really trying to do is only replace the passenger side engine mount. If I could do that without working with the belts and pump I'd do it.

Welcome.
Your posts contain many paradoxes, re your skill levels

Any way #1 The fact that you have come here re the timing proceedure shows you want to check upon or improve your engine running.

#2 Do not confuse setting the timing to some book figure with meaning that you have got it right tuning wise for your particular engine, or anywhere near it.

#3 If you do use one of the factory settings and it does run at an improvement from where it is now then you are fortunate.

#4Changes in compression ratio, internal pump pressure and injector break pressures/spray patterns all seek to pull the engine into different measured operating positions, so final tweeking of the pump, by rotating, and feeling/ listening is inevitable. for optimum, even though the engine will run in many timing positions reasonably.

#5 A gauge is to get you in the 'ball park' and ultimately to record what you end up with for your engine.
Use a parallel metal file and feeler gauges to lock the cam. Never locked a fuel pump, and "I'm still standing"

#6 If you have collected enough VW work manuals over the mk1/mk2 era [as I have] you will see that even VAG themselves couldn't decide what the 'best' timing setting was

I imported a Bentley at great expense to the UK, and was also very disappointed. A bible it aint...

#7 RE puck wear, not seen one wear through normal use, valve seating does sink a little over time, or wear, but mostly the gap closures are from the edge of the valve wearing away. The Bentley does have a valve wear limit, but it took it half way through the mk 2 Quantum production era, to quote it correctly

#8 Unless extreme driving, valve will not burn until hitting the negative valve shim gap. Yep negative gap possible, because the zero datum on the back of the cam lobe dips at the back, to allow -1 thou, or possibly more

[fj40dave]

Sounds like you're new to the VW diesel world. I'd highly suggest you buy a Bentley repair manual. It's the bible for work on these VW engines. You'll save more money over the lifespan of your vehicle with the cost of that repair manual. The entire process is covered in the manual. I'm sure you can search the forum and find the procedure to replace the timing belt and time the engine. But, I'm suggesting that you get the proper repair manual and read that, because it's important.

I will also say that as long as you get the crank to cam timing correct so the valves don't hit the pistons, the injector pump (IP) timing is actually really easy. These VW diesel engines will typically only run within a few degrees of what the proper timing setting should be, and if you use your ears, you can time these engines without the expensive dial indicator tool.

While you wait for your Bentley manual to arrive, search the forums and start reading. It's got a lot of information in it that the Bentley doesn't cover.

Yep....what he ^ said!
I was a newbie until I rebuilt a 1.6L NA last Winter....this Forum helped me in a lot of way's!
Read up, and enjoy

ps: I bought the dial indicator and adapter....and in the end, did the timing by ear, it's simply that easy!