So I've been driving my 04 Jetta GLS 1.8T now for about a month or so. I have to say, it has put the fun back into driving. Yes, I wish it were a TDI (sort of) but its not. It goes like a violated primate, and has lots of nifty features and rides like its on a cloud. Other than the minor inconvenience of having to use 502 rated oils (Mobil 1 0w40 is all I can get here, and its 8 bucks a quart) its a great car.
Now, the killer. It has AC, and it works. Obviously, its R134a and they charge about 8 bucks a can for it. The system does not appear to leak at all. I was not impressed with the sub par performance of the air, so I screwed around putting some in, overcharged it, let some out, etc, had the levels right where they should be but it still just didn't seem right to me at all. In my never ending quest for alternative refrigerants, I came across the topic of hydrocarbons. Now, people say, Oh don't use that, you'll explode. But, a rebuttle was, 15 gallons of gas, or less than a pound of propane. You do the math.
Picked up a 16.5oz Coleman propane can for a small grill or what have you, fashioned up a charging hose using a bernzomatic propane torch tip with the end tip unscrewed, drilled out the restrictor orifice, a length of 3/8ths fuel hose, a union, and two hoes clamps and boom, now I have a charging hose. Oh man, I'm thinking it doens't even leak, maybe I'll get away with this.
So, I appropriately recapture my R134a (lol) safely, and evacuated the entire contents of the A/C system. All that stupid R134a is out of it now. Bone dry. I hook up my redneck propane charging hose and start filling. (car is running, a/c on max) Wasn't long and the compressor started compressing. So, we filled it up and monitored vent temperatures, and had it down to around 32F out the vents. At this point I'm thinking I'll never get this lucky again. And I was right. They are around 40-45 now, but its not consistent. It fluctuates and I do believe I may have a faulty expansion valve or possibly a dryer, so I am looking into replacing them both for safe measure. But you can't beat a 4 dollar A/C charge, and you'll know if its leaking. Ha ha.
Thought I'd share my bit of "living on the edge" and cheap alternative refrigerants. It works great. We did my fathers 98 TDI too, and he was complaining about his joints aching after only 3 minutes of charging it and getting it cold. I'm excited. So I'm going to talk to the hillbilly who led me to the propane avenue, and see what his professional opinion is on my fluctuating temps. They have times gone up to 50-52 and then back down to 40-45 so it seems to me to be something amuck, as everyone else seems to believe it should be a fairly consistent temperature. I'll look into it. Either way, the way it is now should keep me from expiring from the sweltering heat we have been enduring in the far Northeast as of late.
So for those of you with the old R12 systems without an affordable way to charge it, propane is an alternative. Obviously there are risks, but it seems to me the community of HFCs seem to agree that the conditions have to be absolutely perfect for it to cause any combustion issues and even if those conditions existed, its only a pound so its going to burn quick and likely not cause any damage. I do believe Mythbusters did a test on this as well. For me, I'll stick with the cheap propane I can charge from a grill tank versus paying out my arse for R134A, with is still a CFC. As long as the system is tight, I foresee no issues at all. And if it isn't tight, I'm going to find out since you can't mistake the smell of a rotten egg.
To charge or not to charge.
Moderator: Fatmobile
Re: To charge or not to charge.
Seriously, congrats on getting back into a real car instead of the Eddie Bauer Buckboard II!
OK, just couldn't resist... to paraphrase Jeff Foxworthy, If you recharge your vehicle's A/C system from your BB's propane bottle... you just might be a 'Redneck'.
Have to agree on the dryer needing replacement. Expansion valve, maybe/maybe not?
Think about it... your outlet temps are 32F, so the surface of the evaporator is probably about 28F >>> heck, it's freezing moisture out of the air all across your evaporator. At that point the sensor bulb from your expansion valve is going to stop the flow of liquid refrigerant (HC) going to your evaporator (that's its 'de-icing switch' function), i.e. the evaporator is then defrosting and only moderately cool at best... for what seems way too long. Further, the water from that melting ice is making the air inside your car more humid, so it feels even warmer than the 45-50F should! (BTDT with R12, also, see below.) If there's ANY moisture mixed in with your HC, of course, it will also freeze inside the evaporator, and naturally it will take even longer to thaw out & allow the A/C system to resume its cooling functions.
So, yeah, purge the system with a pump, install a new filter/dryer, maybe a little oil for the compressor, and 34-36F should be fine, as measured at the outlets. Overall, that will probably keep you cooler more consistently. And HCs won't seep out through the walls of the cheap factory hoses near as readily as R134a.
Most of the vehicle manufacturers never switched to installing the 'barrier' type hoses required to really contain R134a; they just figured the cars would be out of warranty by the time the original owners figured out their A/C wasn't working as it should. They were right... and made/are making lots more profits that way. The stealerships love A/C work; make lotsa money; have happy times!
FWIW a buddy who is a long-term VW tech just laughed at me, on my blissful reporting that my Dasher's A/C outlets (re-charging with R12) were down to 28F. He told me to try it on a long hot trip... damn, it took a long time to thaw out the evaporator between cooling episodes! Never again.
Best wishes for a 'cool' summer.
OK, just couldn't resist... to paraphrase Jeff Foxworthy, If you recharge your vehicle's A/C system from your BB's propane bottle... you just might be a 'Redneck'.
Have to agree on the dryer needing replacement. Expansion valve, maybe/maybe not?
Think about it... your outlet temps are 32F, so the surface of the evaporator is probably about 28F >>> heck, it's freezing moisture out of the air all across your evaporator. At that point the sensor bulb from your expansion valve is going to stop the flow of liquid refrigerant (HC) going to your evaporator (that's its 'de-icing switch' function), i.e. the evaporator is then defrosting and only moderately cool at best... for what seems way too long. Further, the water from that melting ice is making the air inside your car more humid, so it feels even warmer than the 45-50F should! (BTDT with R12, also, see below.) If there's ANY moisture mixed in with your HC, of course, it will also freeze inside the evaporator, and naturally it will take even longer to thaw out & allow the A/C system to resume its cooling functions.
So, yeah, purge the system with a pump, install a new filter/dryer, maybe a little oil for the compressor, and 34-36F should be fine, as measured at the outlets. Overall, that will probably keep you cooler more consistently. And HCs won't seep out through the walls of the cheap factory hoses near as readily as R134a.
Most of the vehicle manufacturers never switched to installing the 'barrier' type hoses required to really contain R134a; they just figured the cars would be out of warranty by the time the original owners figured out their A/C wasn't working as it should. They were right... and made/are making lots more profits that way. The stealerships love A/C work; make lotsa money; have happy times!
FWIW a buddy who is a long-term VW tech just laughed at me, on my blissful reporting that my Dasher's A/C outlets (re-charging with R12) were down to 28F. He told me to try it on a long hot trip... damn, it took a long time to thaw out the evaporator between cooling episodes! Never again.
Best wishes for a 'cool' summer.
J.R.
SoCal
SoCal
-
coke
Re: To charge or not to charge.
I got rid of the Eddie Bauer a few months ago, was driving a 90 Jetta D for a little while.
I'm going to invest in a manifold gauge set and see whats going on. I'm going to narrow my fluctuation down hopefully.
I'm going to invest in a manifold gauge set and see whats going on. I'm going to narrow my fluctuation down hopefully.
Re: To charge or not to charge.
I've experimented with propane in my R12 system on the ECOdiesel. Other than the leaky high pressure hose, it has a rebuilt compressor, new expansion valve, and all new o-rings. It worked EXCELLENT for about a week till it leaked all out. I was getting 30-50 for vent temps, and it was the best week ever having that ice cold AC here in Texas lol.
Then when I charged it again, it wouldn't cool beyond about 10 below ambient anymore. The first time I charged it, the propane bottle got so frosty I needed a towel to hold it and so did the low pressure line...the second time EVERYTHING was really hot, even the low pressure side. I'm pretty much stumped now, but it was a fun, cheap experiment.
I'm going to get a new dryer and high pressure hose for it soon, vacuum it out, and try a different blend propane and isobutane, instead of 100% propane. I've read using a mix will lower the pressures required to cool efficiently. When I charged the first time, I was around 50-60 low side and 300 high side.
Then when I charged it again, it wouldn't cool beyond about 10 below ambient anymore. The first time I charged it, the propane bottle got so frosty I needed a towel to hold it and so did the low pressure line...the second time EVERYTHING was really hot, even the low pressure side. I'm pretty much stumped now, but it was a fun, cheap experiment.
I'm going to get a new dryer and high pressure hose for it soon, vacuum it out, and try a different blend propane and isobutane, instead of 100% propane. I've read using a mix will lower the pressures required to cool efficiently. When I charged the first time, I was around 50-60 low side and 300 high side.