1987 VW Quantum Syncro - Convert to 2.0 turbo diesel

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Nevadan
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Re: 1987 VW Quantum Syncro - convert to 1.6 turbo diesel?

Post by Nevadan »

I'm going to get part numbers off the rear diff and tranny this weekend and see exactly what I've got. I'll probably just drive this thing for a while and see how it goes, the PO said he got over 25mpg on the highway but I'm used to 40 with my 85 TD Jetta.

I'm obviously new at identifying ratios by part number and may have do dig a bit to find what I need to get the proper ratios but I would think any diesel engined Passat syncro from that era would work. There's an Audi 100 Quattro (gas) in the junk yard that I'm going to go compare mine with.

I know I was very lucky to get this vehicle, and as with most of these old purchases the PO wanted it to go to a VW guy!

Not sure about the origin of the tiny spare, but it held air up to 60psi!!!!
Last edited by Nevadan on Wed Jan 02, 2013 6:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
1985 Jetta 1.6 TD
1981 Caddy (getting a 1.6TD)
1987 Quantum Syncro Wagon, converted to 2.0 TD August 2020
1986 Passat TDI
2006 Touareg V10 TDI
1996 CHevy 6.5 TD
Nevadan
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Re: 1987 VW Quantum Syncro - convert to 1.6 turbo diesel?

Post by Nevadan »

Per a "Quantum Syncro (operator's) Manual" at the "Quantum Syncro Wagon Yahoo Site" the transmission is a 016 Code AAU with a 4.11 final drive!!! So obviously if I want to put a TD or TDI in this I will need a different tranny and rear end.
Quantum-man wrote: If the rear diffs are not 1:1 then you will indeed need both front and back. They do appear quite often in the German Ebay.
I'm going to start looking for these. Do you know if the diesel Audi's would have the proper tranny and rear end?
1985 Jetta 1.6 TD
1981 Caddy (getting a 1.6TD)
1987 Quantum Syncro Wagon, converted to 2.0 TD August 2020
1986 Passat TDI
2006 Touareg V10 TDI
1996 CHevy 6.5 TD
Nevadan
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Re: 1987 VW Quantum Syncro - convert to 1.6 turbo diesel?

Post by Nevadan »

QSW update.

I'm going to use this forum as a log of my progress in my conversion from the gasser to the 2.0TD 5 cylinder.

I found an engine that will be shipped to me from the Minnesota/Wisconsin/Ontario area. It's a good running engine with 120,xxx miles on it. He is also sending me the airbox, old rotted out TD radiator that I can make a new one from, and some other miscellaneous parts. The engine is complete including air to oil cooler. I also found a good (NO cracks) head that is being shipped to me from Minneapolis that I will receive next week. I'm also receiving an Audi 5000 Bentley manual so I'll have the specs on the engine.

I've driven the QSW for about two weeks now after replacing all the CV boots, one axle, front bearings, struts and shocks and lubeing all the CV joints. The car drives incredibly good!! I've taken it skiing several times in some pretty heavy Sierra snow (7 feet in the last 6 days!) and got to use the locking center and rear differentials one time to get out of the ski area parking lot. This car stays on the road in ice, snow, rain, wind, etc!!

I'm going to stick with the stock transmission for now since I can travel 62 mph at 3000 rpms and 70 mph at 3400 rpms. If the 2.0 is similar to the 1.6 in my Jetta that should work out fine for what I intend to use the car for. I've spoken to Scotty at Advanced Automotion and he said I can't change the gearing in the stock 016 transmission. I may go to an 01E TDI European tranny in the future but that's out of my budget right now.

The cargo space is huge in the Wagon and I really like it. I found a stock cargo cover to hide everything and it looks near new.

This will be a long project but I will post some photo's once the engine arrives.
1985 Jetta 1.6 TD
1981 Caddy (getting a 1.6TD)
1987 Quantum Syncro Wagon, converted to 2.0 TD August 2020
1986 Passat TDI
2006 Touareg V10 TDI
1996 CHevy 6.5 TD
Nevadan
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Posts: 87
Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2010 1:41 pm
Location: Reno, Nevada

1987 VW Quantum Syncro - convert to 2.0 5 cyl turbo diesel?

Post by Nevadan »

Can one of the moderators move this over the to "Projects" section? I also need to retitle it "1987 VW Quantum Syncro - convert to 2.0 5 cylinder IDI Turbo Diesel"
1985 Jetta 1.6 TD
1981 Caddy (getting a 1.6TD)
1987 Quantum Syncro Wagon, converted to 2.0 TD August 2020
1986 Passat TDI
2006 Touareg V10 TDI
1996 CHevy 6.5 TD
Quantum-man
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Location: Gloucester; Limey-Land

Re: 1987 VW Quantum Syncro - convert to 1.6 turbo diesel?

Post by Quantum-man »

There was someone in the distant past who tried this conversion, and I'm sure he had to cut some bodywork to get the engine to fit.
He was eventually beaten by bad bodywork and a faulty TD head.

Was it Jack Bombay or something like that?

Syncro site is the way to go though...
"I'm not here to help... I'm here to Pro-Volke"

Be like meeee...Drive a Quantum TD
...The best work-horse after the cart...

Quantae grow on you...but Rabbits are like roses...
... girls like em ;o)

Only one Darwin, Einstein, Poe and Verne.
That is why if you listen, you will learn:
From the one and only Quantum-man,
Who sees the worms from outside of the can.

7 Quantae in 20 years; 4 dead and 3 TD's still alive [2 wagons & 1 fastback] oh and a GTD :o)
Nevadan
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Re: 1987 VW Quantum Syncro - convert to 1.6 turbo diesel?

Post by Nevadan »

Yes, I found his thread, see below. He was eventually defeated by a bad head with no source for another. He may have even tried another engine that also had a bad head. I don't think he was stopped by the bodywork.

The link to his thread is here: http://forums.tdiclub.com/private.php

I figured since there's a five cylinder in there now putting in another five (with a turbo, bigger radiator, etc, etc, etc) would be doable. I'm going to drive the gasser when necessary this winter while I collect diesel engine parts and, who knows, I may just decide I like it as it is. Either way I want to have the 2.0TD ready to put in by early summer.

The Syncro Forum is pretty inactive and you can't post pictures there so I'm going to use this since there's IDI guys here. This will probably take a year to complete and I just want a place to store my ramblings. There's also a sense of loyalty to this site since this is where I originally learned how to work on my 1.6TD only three years ago (just replaced 2 glow plugs tonight; I just remove the injector lines and injectors to make it easy to get to them, plus it's the easiest way to test if they're working because you just LOOK at them). Hagar provided some good information and some great reading. I admire that he NEVER bit back at anyone even though many people took verbal shots at him.
Last edited by Nevadan on Tue Jan 01, 2013 10:46 pm, edited 2 times in total.
1985 Jetta 1.6 TD
1981 Caddy (getting a 1.6TD)
1987 Quantum Syncro Wagon, converted to 2.0 TD August 2020
1986 Passat TDI
2006 Touareg V10 TDI
1996 CHevy 6.5 TD
Nevadan
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Posts: 87
Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2010 1:41 pm
Location: Reno, Nevada

Re: 1987 VW Quantum Syncro - Convert to 2.0 turbo diesel

Post by Nevadan »

Here's some photo's of my QSW. This is my starting point as I gather other parts.
Image
The much sought after cargo cover.
Image
The strong and useable 2.2L gasser.
Image
And the beautiful 80's era interior.
Image
1985 Jetta 1.6 TD
1981 Caddy (getting a 1.6TD)
1987 Quantum Syncro Wagon, converted to 2.0 TD August 2020
1986 Passat TDI
2006 Touareg V10 TDI
1996 CHevy 6.5 TD
GSENN
Glow Plug
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Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2012 4:09 pm

Re: 1987 VW Quantum Syncro - convert to 1.6 turbo diesel?

Post by GSENN »

NOOOoo...!

Say it ain't so!

I just, and I mean just, in that it is being shipped as I type

A 1986 Quantum Syncro with the dif locks..

Super clean inside and out!

The guy was selling it cheap, because he said the motor runs a little rough..

But I didn't care because my plan was to swap out the 5cyl gas for a 1.6 or 1.9 4cyl turbo diesel!!

I thought I read somewhere that the bolt pattern for the 5cyl and 4cyl were the same.. But from what I gathered here that is not the case!?!

Argh!

Ok.. ok.. I re-read all the posts, and from what I gathered there is only two options?

1) get a 5cyl diesel
2) get a front tranny/dif to match the 4cyl along with a matching gear ration rear dif

Both options kind of suck for me!

option 1 seems hard to come by a 5cyl diesel, and from what I read they seem to have a lot of head issues.
option 2 sucks because replacing that would mean loosing the differential lock options.. right?

Is there an option 3? As in the adaptor plate? Tell me again why an adaptor plate will not work? Is the gear ratio in the stock 5-speed gas trans that far off that a 4cyl diesel wont cut it?
Nevadan
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Re: 1987 VW Quantum Syncro - convert to 1.6 turbo diesel?

Post by Nevadan »

GSENN wrote:NOOOoo...!
A 1986 Quantum Syncro with the dif locks..

But I didn't care because my plan was to swap out the 5cyl gas for a 1.6 or 1.9 4cyl turbo diesel!!

I thought I read somewhere that the bolt pattern for the 5cyl and 4cyl were the same.. But from what I gathered here that is not the case!?!

1) get a 5cyl diesel
2) get a front tranny/dif to match the 4cyl along with a matching gear ration rear dif

Both options kind of suck for me!

option 1 seems hard to come by a 5cyl diesel, and from what I read they seem to have a lot of head issues.
option 2 sucks because replacing that would mean loosing the differential lock options.. right?

Is there an option 3? As in the adaptor plate? Tell me again why an adaptor plate will not work? Is the gear ratio in the stock 5-speed gas trans that far off that a 4cyl diesel wont cut it?
Your conclusions seem to be the same as mine. I decided to go with the the 5 cylinder diesel (1985 or so 2.0TD, 5 cylinder IDI) and it will work with one BIG exception: it won't qualify for emissions since VW/Audi ended the IDI's in the U.S. in 1985. If I had a 1985 QSW I would have no trouble. I'm currently trying to determine how I can get it registered prior to installing the engine.
1985 Jetta 1.6 TD
1981 Caddy (getting a 1.6TD)
1987 Quantum Syncro Wagon, converted to 2.0 TD August 2020
1986 Passat TDI
2006 Touareg V10 TDI
1996 CHevy 6.5 TD
GSENN
Glow Plug
Posts: 4
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2012 4:09 pm

Re: 1987 VW Quantum Syncro - convert to 1.6 turbo diesel?

Post by GSENN »

Nevadan wrote:Your conclusions seem to be the same as mine.
Yup, with regards to option 1 and 2..

But what about option 3? The adaptor plate?

Early on in the thread you, you pointed out you already have a 1.6L 4cyl diesel, and were talking/asking about using an adaptor plate to mount the it to the existing tranny with the 5cyl bolt pattern.

What shot that idea down?

In that an adaptor plate was my first thought too, did I miss something that made this option a no-go?

If so, what was it?

EDIT

I think I found it? i.e.
Nevadan wrote:The gas engine turns at 3,300 rpms at 70mph so I'm not sure any diesel, TDI or TD, would be a good fit to that drive train. It seems I would need different gearing between the engine and the final drive in the front transmission and/or in addition to a change in the rear differential
Is it safe to assume that this is the reason you went for the 5cyl?

If so..

I have a 1984 Quantum too.. It is NOT a syncro!

It was originally a turbo diesel.. but the guy I got it from wore that motor out, and put in an older (Dasher) 1.6L non-turbo diesel in it. And, other than real steep hills, it runs fine down the road..

But I digress..

The reason I bring up my 1984 is that in 5th gear, doing ~75-80mph, I am tacking ~3250RPM

So.. I think a new 1.9L turbo should be able to pull/push this 1986 Quantum Syncro down the road just fine with the stock gear ratios..

Right?

Or am I missing something?

Keep in mind I am a shade tree mech.. And most of the leaves have fallen off the tree! Thus I know just enough to be dangerous! ;)
Nevadan wrote:I decided to go with the the 5 cylinder diesel (1985 or so 2.0TD, 5 cylinder IDI) and it will work with one BIG exception: it won't qualify for emissions since VW/Audi ended the IDI's in the U.S. in 1985. If I had a 1985 QSW I would have no trouble. I'm currently trying to determine how I can get it registered prior to installing the engine.
Or move to NM! They don't smog stuff here! ;)
Nevadan
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Re: 1987 VW Quantum Syncro - Convert to 2.0 turbo diesel

Post by Nevadan »

GSENN wrote:Early on in the thread you, you pointed out you already have a 1.6L 4cyl diesel, and were talking/asking about using an adaptor plate to mount the it to the existing tranny with the 5cyl bolt pattern.

What shot that idea down?
I was originally told that Kennedy Engineered Products could make an adapter (http://www.kennedyenginc.com/Pages/default.aspx) but decided not to go that route since the 1.6TD or NA wouldn't have enough power to move the vehicle in the mountains where I drive. The four cylinder diesels would need the adapter plate while the 5 cylinder's wouldn't. I no longer agree with my original statement that the IDI and TDI are equivalent in terms of operational RPM's, the IDI's can operate safely at higher rpm's, and in fact seem to operate better at higher rpms (that's just my personal opinion and I don't mind if it's disputed. Hagar seemed to agree also.), see my reply below.
GSENN wrote: I have a 1984 Quantum too.. It is NOT a syncro!
It was originally a turbo diesel.. but the guy I got it from wore that motor out, and put in an older (Dasher) 1.6L non-turbo diesel in it. And, other than real steep hills, it runs fine down the road..
But I digress..
The reason I bring up my 1984 is that in 5th gear, doing ~75-80mph, I am tacking ~3250RPM
So.. I think a new 1.9L turbo should be able to pull/push this 1986 Quantum Syncro down the road just fine with the stock gear ratios..
Right?
Or am I missing something?
Keep in mind I am a shade tree mech.. And most of the leaves have fallen off the tree! Thus I know just enough to be dangerous!
When I originally made the decision to go with the 5 cylinder 2.0TD it was so I could keep the stock Syncro drivetrain with both center and rear differential locks. The 1.6TD and 2.0TD engines can operate at 3,000 to 3,500 rpms (with a redline at 4,500rpm's) while the TDI's operate MUCH better from 2,200 to 2,800 rpm's. I figured I could run the 2.0TD bewteen 3,000 and 3,500 without risking much. My other option was to find a European 01A 6 speed tranny with a 4.11 final drive ratio and use a 4 cyl TDI, I just didn't want to change the transmission and lose the center differential lock. I also wanted to keep this as low budget as possible and I've never worked on a TDI engine with all the electronics. I'm a similar shade tree mechanic and will stick with what I know.
The gas Syncro's have a 4.11 final drive in the front and rear differentials which is probably different than the non-Syncro diesel Quantums.
Nevadan wrote:Or move to NM! They don't smog stuff here!
I do have the option of registering my converted QSW in one of Nevada's smaller counties which don't have smog requirements. I've just got to find someone who's done it or talk to someone at DMV in one of the smaller counties.
1985 Jetta 1.6 TD
1981 Caddy (getting a 1.6TD)
1987 Quantum Syncro Wagon, converted to 2.0 TD August 2020
1986 Passat TDI
2006 Touareg V10 TDI
1996 CHevy 6.5 TD
GSENN
Glow Plug
Posts: 4
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2012 4:09 pm

Re: 1987 VW Quantum Syncro - Convert to 2.0 turbo diesel

Post by GSENN »

Nevadan wrote:I was originally told that Kennedy Engineered Products could make an adapter (http://www.kennedyenginc.com/Pages/default.aspx)
NICE!

Thanks for the link!!
Nevadan wrote:I no longer agree with my original statement that the IDI and TDI are equivalent in terms of operational RPM's, the IDI's can operate safely at higher rpm's, and in fact seem to operate better at higher rpms (that's just my personal opinion and I don't mind if it's disputed. Hagar seemed to agree also.), see my reply below.
That is good to know!

In that to be honest, I was always a little nervous running my Quantum down the highway at 3000+ RPM.. Even though the red line is at 4,500, it just didn't feel right (my gut not the car) for a diesel to rev like that.
Nevadan wrote:When I originally made the decision to go with the 5 cylinder 2.0TD it was so I could keep the stock Syncro drive train with both center and rear differential locks.
and
Nevadan wrote:My other option was to find a European 01A 6 speed tranny with a 4.11 final drive ratio and use a 4 cyl TDI, I just didn't want to change the transmission and lose the center differential lock.
Agreed 100%!

I mean that is the whole reason I went looking for a SYNCRO!
Nevadan wrote:The 1.6TD and 2.0TD engines can operate at 3,000 to 3,500 rpms (with a redline at 4,500rpm's) while the TDI's operate MUCH better from 2,200 to 2,800 rpm's.
I did not know that! Thanks!
Nevadan wrote:I also wanted to keep this as low budget as possible and I've never worked on a TDI engine with all the electronics.
I am with you on both counts!

It was strange reading your posts, because as I read it, I was saying to myself that is exactly what I would say!
Nevadan wrote: The gas Syncro's have a 4.11 final drive in the front and rear differentials which is probably different than the non-Syncro diesel Quantums.
Agreed 100%

I just mentioned it as to point out the 1.6L has no issues running at 3000+ RPM

So, this will be cool!

Sounds like your going down the 5cyl path.. I think Ill try for the adaptor an 4cyl path.. Only thing is it is going to take me awhile to get to it! I got so many irons in the fire right now, I just bought the Quantum now because it is not too often that you see one come up for sale that is this clean inside and out!

But I will be following your progress with great interest, who knows, by the time I get to it, I may change my mind and go 5cyl diesel too!
Nevadan
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Re: 1987 VW Quantum Syncro - Convert to 2.0 turbo diesel

Post by Nevadan »

Well......my progress may be slow as well, I too have a lot going on.

I did get the 2.0TD running on my engine stand last night but couldn't figure out the timing advance and idle speed control that is operated by a thermostat controlled lever off the radiator coolant temperature. I don't have the coolant lines hooked up so there was no way to tell if it was working, it was just idling way to fast most of the time. The advance mechanism is quite different than the 1.6's.
1985 Jetta 1.6 TD
1981 Caddy (getting a 1.6TD)
1987 Quantum Syncro Wagon, converted to 2.0 TD August 2020
1986 Passat TDI
2006 Touareg V10 TDI
1996 CHevy 6.5 TD
Nevadan
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Posts: 87
Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2010 1:41 pm
Location: Reno, Nevada

Re: 1987 VW Quantum Syncro - Convert to 2.0 turbo diesel

Post by Nevadan »

Engine update! It runs strong on the stand! It's an Ontario, Canada engine and was quite rusty and corroded but when I took the pan off it all looked pretty good inside except for one crushed/missing oil squirter. I've got a replacement coming from a guy on the D2.4T site. The injectors were VERY difficult to get out but I used some advice on this site and created a T-handle to break them free. Once out I tested the glow plugs with the stock, non-pimped, setup and they all worked.

Left side of engine
Image

Right side of engine
Image

Front of engine
Image

Back of engine
Image

Here's a little welding I had to do to a rusted through spot on the oilpan.
Image
1985 Jetta 1.6 TD
1981 Caddy (getting a 1.6TD)
1987 Quantum Syncro Wagon, converted to 2.0 TD August 2020
1986 Passat TDI
2006 Touareg V10 TDI
1996 CHevy 6.5 TD
Nevadan
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Posts: 87
Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2010 1:41 pm
Location: Reno, Nevada

Re: 1987 VW Quantum Syncro - Convert to 2.0 turbo diesel

Post by Nevadan »

And some pictures of a spare head I found. It was completely rebuilt and appears to have been shaved a bit to much. The cracks between the valves were welded and remachined, new valve stems and seals, and it looks pretty good. The guy I bought it from in Minnesota also threw in a spare cam. So if any of the dreaded head problems show up I'll be ready.

Image

Image

Image
1985 Jetta 1.6 TD
1981 Caddy (getting a 1.6TD)
1987 Quantum Syncro Wagon, converted to 2.0 TD August 2020
1986 Passat TDI
2006 Touareg V10 TDI
1996 CHevy 6.5 TD
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