New To Me Diesel Rabbit Won't Start. Ran Fine on Test Drive.

[jasons]

1983 VW Rabbit Diesel

The seller had left it cold upon my request. After I checked everything out I glow plugged it, pulled out the enrichment lever and it started right up (high 20's outside).
I test drove it for about 15 minutes and brought it back, shut it off and it restarted fine. I shut it off once again and finally restarted it to put it on my trailer to bring it home. That was the last time it ran.

-50-ish degrees in my garage
-Rabbit is full of good diesel fuel
-Has new glow plugs by previous owner (<500mi)
-Test light shows each glow plug cycling until I hear the relay click off
-Injector pump is full of diesel fuel (I removed the fuel inlet and looked inside)
-Turns over, but never hits a lick

-I pulled the air cleaner and poured a cap full of diesel fuel into each intake port followed by a quick shot of starting fluid into each port. It fired up and ran for just a second.
-Next I poured a cap full of diesel fuel only into each intake port and it will not fire.

Looking for ideas.

Thank you guys!
-Jason

[TylerDurden]

I'd check for 12V at the cutoff solenoid, on the IP.

Starting fluid and liquids at intake ports risks killing engine from blown precups and hydrolock respectively. I would never.

Next, I'd run the engine off a clean container of fuel through clear lines, elevate the container like an IV bag. ("bottle feeding")

[82vdub]

Test the glowplugs and the fuel shutoff solenoid like Tyler durden suggested. If your Rabbit has a working block heater, you can nearly test the operation of glow plugs by plugging the car in for a couple hours and then trying to start it. If it starts, it's likely glow plug issue. If it doesn't start, it's not likely glow plug issues. You have to test for voltage drop or current draw at the glow plugs. Mearly testing for voltage only tests the wiring and relay system, but does not guarantee that the glow plugs are actually operational.

[jasons]

I knew starting fluid was a no no, so I mixed it with diesel fuel. That's how I rationalized it.

I hit the fuel shut off with my test light while the ign. was on and it lit up.

Why won't the motor pop off when I pour a bit of diesel fuel into each intake port?

The Rabbit is in my garage where it's 50f+. I had it plugged in the entire night and it never would fire.

I'll bottle feed her tonight and see what happens.
Also will check the glow plugs with a meter.

Thanks!
-Jason

[82vdub]

Why won't the motor pop off when I pour a bit of diesel fuel into each intake port?

Gasoline will ignite because it's the vapors of gasoline that burn. A pool of diesel will hardly light, even when you put a match to the fuel. This changes a bit though when it's under extreme compression. The larger issue that could present itself is hydro lock when you bend rods and break things because of "liquid" in the cylinder.

The Rabbit is in my garage where it's 50f+. I had it plugged in the entire night and it never would fire.

I'll bottle feed her tonight and see what happens.
Also will check the glow plugs with a meter.

There have been some on the forum that have had starting issues and they find that they have intermittant power to the fuel shutoff solenoid depending on the key position. It's easy to test the fuel solenoid. Remove it, remove the plunger and spring, and reinstall. Now there is essentially no fuel shutoff solenoid, so nothing stopping it from starting. Try this and post results. If it does fire, you'll have to starve it of fuel, air or snub it to shut the engine off though.

[air-cooled or diesel]

dont pour anything down an intake, thats pure liquid fuel trying to be compressed by piston, a good way to lose it!
the inj pump solenoid needs to 'click' when you cycle the key, if it does you now can take a 17mm wrench(a flange wrench is recommended for beginners) and crank, loosen each line as you crank, this proves you now have fuel at injectors, the only other things, 1 compression problem(not necessarily your prob), &glow plugs. ive seen those cheap get anywhere glowplugs go bad quickly.
its really hard to see each glow plug cycling, most likely you have a voltmeter and show voltage, that means your(if the case)relay is working and you have power there, not that any or all glowplugs are flowing current, that test means at the least you have to unhook the gp bar, and perhaps run an ohm test. or remove all glowplugs and manually test. replacing is just as easy. get bosch glpgs.

[Fatmobile]

Well it thought about starting when you added fuel so it's probably a fuel supply problem.
Replace fuel lines with clear line. To the pump, from the pump and between the injectors. Then you'll be able to give us valuable information on what's happening to the fuel.
Cracking a metal injector line doesn't really tell you much. If you see fuel it doesn't mean the pump is full.
Probably a leaky small rubber fuel line between the injectors. Let in air and fuel drained back to the tank.

[air-cooled or diesel]

well if the injpump solenoid clicks, the next thing is to see if you have fuel at injectors, if not thats most likely, it drained back into the fuel tank, if you do have fuel when you crack lines you go from there, glowplugs?? id figure is next.
the main thing those inj line connections are snug tight, like 18ftlbs, or tighten just tighter than it doesnt leak, Dont strip!

[colby]

Keep the cold start lever (enrichement as you referred to it) pushed in when you try to start it. Don't pull it out. A lot of these beasts wont start with it out, but will with it in, and then once its firing, you can pull it out.

Colby

[jasons]

Been tinkering with the glow plugs the past few days and I believe that's where my problem is.
I found out the wiring on this Rabbit is a bit cobbled, so I decided to bypass the factory glow plug system and go with a Ford starter relay in the hopes of eliminating the issue.

Previous owner installed new glow plugs before I bought it, but they were Autolites, so I replaced them with a new set of Bosch (I tested each one successfully before installing). Also installed a new fusible link.

Here's my current set up:
Positive terminal of starter => right large terminal on Ford starter relay
Left large terminal of starter relay => factory 50a fusible link
Other side of 50a fusible link => factory glow plug bus bar


I put 12v to the small right terminal labeled "s" on the Ford starter relay, it clicks on, but glow plugs never heat up. Eventually I completely melted the fusible link ...I'm awful with electrical systems and I know whatever I'm missing is really simple.

[bscutt]

ok in the past I just used a jumper cable to jump from the glow plug buss bar to the positive battery terminal - something with a small clamp preferably so you can get on the buss bar without falling off and making big sparks. If you are reasonably quick you can connect it up, get in the car, wait 15-30 seconds then crank. If is starts go pull the cable off the battery. If it doesn't pull it off anyway before you burn out the glow plugs.
If it starts you know you need to resolve the issue of getting power to the buss bar. You may need more than 50 amps for the fusible link since these glow plugs are about 12 amps each if I recall. That plus time means heat which will burn out the link.

[TylerDurden]

If the link melted, there was beefy current... going hopefully to the GPs. If not the GP's, something else musta got hot.

Occam's razor would indicate the GP's were working and something else is afoot.

[air-cooled or diesel]

yea im for a direct connection from pos batt to glowplugs. make sure you disconnect direct connection after 20-30secs. you can crank engine over after 15-20secs, hold connection and if starts disconnect. if not disconnect. if glowplugs dont heat up in 20-30secs, in warmer/balmier weather 20 secs. check grounds. as far as link burning out, keep an eye on that.
becareful of connecting 'hot-wire' @pos batt. connect and disconnect @ glowplugs, dont make many sparks around battery. what i mean is hook up connection (like a clip)to batt and carefully, not shorting out connect to glowplug bar, and you should have power,hopefully.disconnect @glowplug/bar.

[jasons]

Factory wire that runs from fusible link to glow plugs: I disconnected this from the fusible link and hooked up my jumper cable. I then took the other end and quickly stuck it on the battery (minimal sparks) and held it for 10-15 seconds. The old girl that has endured my poking, prodding, and experimental abuse all week long instantly fired up and ran like a dream.

I let everything cool down, unsuccessfully tried to start w/out glow plugs, then connected everything back up, (starter 12v => Ford starter relay => new fusible link => glow plug bus bar). I put 12v to "s" terminal on Ford starter relay for 6 seconds and she popped right off. I'm not sure what changed between now and last time, but I'm moving onto Phase II.

I'll replace my fusible link with this little fuse block:

Pic borrowed from Tawney on VWDieselParts.com
I'm using (4) 20a fuses for the glow plugs instead of the 15s fuses shown in the pic...is that alright?

Any further suggestions?

Thank you guys so much for all the help. I've scoured all the threads about glow plugs. Very helpful.
-Jason

[air-cooled or diesel]

and you should have power,hopefully.

I then took the other end and quickly stuck it on the battery (minimal sparks) and held it for 10-15 seconds. The old girl that has endured my poking, prodding, and experimental abuse all week long instantly fired up and ran like a dream.

and voila you have power, good so now you know its 'only' glowplug prob, hopefully you get that straightened out. i had meant hook up to batt 1st is safer, as long as while your reaching down to glowplug bar you dont short out. maybe the link melting is a prob w/that ford relay, too early to tell, only you can figure that out, but now you know you have juice @gps. getting stable juice there during cold starts is your next step. check connections and grounds. on my mk2 i ran a few extra grounds and cleaned up connections(+/-). ground from engine/or tranny to body is an important one to start with. and the grounding strap from neg terminal to body, is right there @batt -.
started up warm with out a problem?
i ran a wire from pos terminal to a switch (inside)thru fuse to glow plug bar/bus, simple,easy,and works really good. ive had that setup for more than 10 yrs. i just have to 'long glow' when really cold, as i use crimp connections for running what 50amps? so i measured 11.5 or so volts @gps, low but doesnt really hurt anything. i dont want to solder connections and melt plastic covers to connectors. every few years i snip some off wires and get a new switch @about $10