'85 NA Golf dial gauge timing. Hold my hand, friends.

[Josh]

The camshaft and crankshaft are now perfectly in sync. The pump, however, is severely wack, and the car wouldn't start, which is exactly what it used to not do. '85 Golf pump timing should be 0.036-0.038". I got 0.009"! Is that even possible, to be timed soo badly, yet to still run(only when the outside temperature is over 80 degrees, and the cam and crank timing had been off)?

I'm now going to loosen the pump and reposition it such that the dial gauge reads as intended.

[Josh]

Fudge! The adjustable range of rotating the injection pump gets me a max of about 0.023". I know the head and crankshaft are already perfectly in alignment. The manuals seem to say that if the pump won't adjust to spec, that the head and crank timing need to be reworked.

What I DON'T know for certain is that the pump is installed correctly; it was missing the bottom rear attachment bolt, so it may not be original. Additionally, this '85 Golf does not appear to have the notch on the sprocket which could allow me to look at stuff and see it was roughly installed correctly.

Why is the pump so far off? Do I need to remove it and try to verify that it is installed correctly? I have the sprocket puller, so I can handle it. But I don't want to do it if it's pointless. I am baffled and don't understand what gives.

[TylerDurden]

The process is exacting... you must preload the gauge for >2.5mm at TDC, roll the engine back just until the needle stops moving, RESET the gauge to the closest even zero (.1", .2", etc.). then bring the engine back to TDC and move only the pump to adjust.

This process ensures the gauge is reading IP camplate lift from its lowest point.

Imagine if the gauge was not travelling the entire slope of the camplate... reading would be off, perhaps like what you're experiencing.

So, your final gauge reading might be .138", .238"... get it?

[82vdub]

you may have to slip the timing belt a tooth on the injector pump to get more adjustment out of it. That's a fairly common issue when doing timing belts.

[Josh]

I'm familiar with proper technique for this process, and have used it successfully on my personal vehicles. I'm positive I'm not making any mistake procedure-wise, as Tyler's comment suggests.

I will try taking the timing belt off as 82vdub suggests.

Is it possible the pump was installed incorrectly(it was missing the bottom rear bolt, so I doubt it is stock)? Could a shop have installed the flywheel incorrectly during a recent clutch job, such that TDC isn't actually where the 0 lines up with the upside-down triangle in the bellhousing?

[Josh]

The pump was contacting the fuel rails, limiting rotation. I removed them, which permitted for a timing rotation to 0.033". I verified that the limiting factor was the mounting points for the pump; the belt is not interfering with the rotation.

I put it all back together, and the vehicle will not start still. What possible explanation can there be that the pump's timing is so far off? Has anybody ever encountered a pump that was installed with the timing upside down or some such thing?

Am I correct that the next logical step would be to remove the pump pulley, and see how the pump is mounted? I am half expecting the woodruff key to be missing. Basketcases; I tell you! Why do I agree to work on them?

It's too rainy to do anything more today.

-Josh

[bscutt]

yes you will need to move the belt on the pump to make that all work. Generally you will have the crank at the TDC mark, the cam set such that the slot on the driver's side is exactly parallel to the head surface, and the mark on the pump pulley lined up with the mark on the pump bracket. That's the starting point for any timing in my opinion. The cam to crank timing is super critical as the engines are interference motors plus the fact that valve timing is critical. Sounds like that part may be ok? From there get that pump pulley lined up with the mark and see if it will start.

[Fatmobile]

Sounds like you are a tooth off.
You know it will run with the timing 180 degrees off.
Hard to believe your injection pump sprocket doesn't have the notch on the injection pump side, to tell you when you are at #1 cylinder.
It's supposed to be at 3 o'clock compared to the keyway.

Mark the belt and move it a tooth. Sprocket moves away from the engine as if the pump was turning away from the head with the sprocket moving with it.

[Josh]

Ok, so it's not the belt really that we're speaking about. We're talking about the sprocket on the pump being off. What you guys are describing sounds to me like I need to rotate the pump sprocket clockwise to the point that it is rotated one belt tooth's worth. Does this sound like I am understanding you all correctly?

[TylerDurden]

yep.

Keep in mind the locking pin might not line up properly after, but maybe the sprocket is actually off by a tooth right now.

[Josh]

Sounds good; giving it a try now while the rain holds off.

[Josh]

WHAT THE F#$%?

Ok, so I rotate the crankshaft until the 0 on the flywheel is directly visible in the tranny bellhousing. Thinking that I want to be CERTAIN that the head and crank timing remain as close to perfect as possible, I remove the valve cover and valve cover gasket. THE GROOVE IN THE BACK OF THE CAMSHAFT IS NOW UPSIDE-DOWN.

It was right side up a few days ago when I clearly had my 3' door hinge and feeler gauges holding it perfectly in position.

Is this a flywheel from SATAN?

I do not know what in the actual motherF@#$ is going on. Have I lost my mind? Does an '85 Golf flywheel have dummy 0 marks on it at the 1/2 way point?

To be clear, I drove this vehicle 800 miles at 80 mph with no problem before I began working on it.

Please tell me how the '85 is magically different than the '84 and earlier 1.6 and 1.5s I've worked on.

[Josh]

I have pictures from the other day. I'm going to go take some again now of the flywheel and it's position as visible via the bellhousing.

[82vdub]

Are you sure you are looking at the TDC mark? I guess that's what you are questioning.

The TDC mark may look like the on in the pic in this link: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=12090&p=85046&hilit=dimple#p85046

I also identified a way to find TDC from outside the motor at least on 1.6L engines (specifically 1982 vintage). Look at the dimple on the front crank pully. That dimple should be at the 7:30 position, with two bolt holes for the pully lining straight up the cylinder (not vertical). That's TDC. See my second post here and the pic below: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=12239&p=86407&hilit=dimple#p86407

[Josh]

failed pic link attempt.