Need help, out of ideas. Heavy smoke and running poorly

Technical questions and answers concerning all models of VW diesel vehicles.

Moderator: Fatmobile

Post Reply
Carterwlsn
Glow Plug
Posts: 4
Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2016 9:47 pm

Need help, out of ideas. Heavy smoke and running poorly

Post by Carterwlsn »

I have a 81 Rabbit with a 1.6 diesel. The engine has about 60,000 miles since it was rebuilt and it has always run good until now. Back in May, I was driving on the interstate and the timing belt started coming apart. I shut the engine down immediately before it broke. When I got the car home, half of the timing belt was shredded. I thought I got lucky, but I bent most of the valves. I just now have had time get everything back togther. I rebuilt the head and have it all back togther. Now the problem... when I started it up, it is smoking heavy white smoke. If you press the gas, it is heavy black smoke then back to white. It smells of unburned diesel. It seems to run fine other than this issue. The EGT's are up from normal. About 500 just idling.

I went and double checked the basics. All 4 cylinders are even 475psi hot. Cam timing is exact, pump timing is set at 0.98mm, and valves are adjusted within spec. I had the injectors tested today. All the injectors are good according to the shop. They said the injectors are all popping between 115-120. They said it was low but normal for injectors with some use. I have checked and rechecked cam and pump timing. I reinstalled the injectors and the problem remains. Any ideas? The car was running fine before the timing belt went.
Thanks
TylerDurden
Turbo Charger
Posts: 1285
Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2009 1:01 pm
Location: Michigami, USA

Re: Need help, out of ideas. Heavy smoke and running poorly

Post by TylerDurden »

I'd pull the crank sprocket... I'd bet the "key" is damaged and the sprocket can move on the crank nose.

I would not run the engine until the sprocket is verified to be ok.
Have a nice day.


'91 Jetta ECOdiesel TD - clean & complete (less motor/tranny) for sale

'82 Westy Vanagon 1.9 N/A - 23.5mpg
'86 Jetta TD - 45-50mpg
'81 Dasher Wagon 1.6 N/A - 52mpg
'84 Wasserboxer - DOA, parts donor
'94 Passat wagon VR6
'03 Jetta TDI wagon 230K, 52.3mpg
'89 Jetta N/A - 51mpg
'82 Caddy 1.6 N/A - Sold
Carterwlsn
Glow Plug
Posts: 4
Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2016 9:47 pm

Re: Need help, out of ideas. Heavy smoke and running poorly

Post by Carterwlsn »

I just pulled the crank sprocket. The key is not damaged. I also pulled the injection pump sprocket. The key is not damaged on the pump either. I was hoping that would be it.

I ordered a rebuilt injection pump I'm going to try. I have no way to test the pump I have. It was rebuilt about 2 years ago and was fine until I lost the belt. I can't figure out what could have happened from just sitting 8 months. I'm really just throwing parts at it at this point, but it seems to be the only thing left.
TylerDurden
Turbo Charger
Posts: 1285
Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2009 1:01 pm
Location: Michigami, USA

Re: Need help, out of ideas. Heavy smoke and running poorly

Post by TylerDurden »

Well, good news on the sprockets anyway... worth the time if there has been a valve collision.

You might consider a leakdown test... the grey smoke might be coolant combined with unburnt fuel.

I can't imagine how the IP could go bad either, but swapping in another pump will be definitive (albeit pricey diagnostic if purchasing a rebuilt). Know anybody with a spare nearby?

And I presume you have checked the lines for air infiltration?
Have a nice day.


'91 Jetta ECOdiesel TD - clean & complete (less motor/tranny) for sale

'82 Westy Vanagon 1.9 N/A - 23.5mpg
'86 Jetta TD - 45-50mpg
'81 Dasher Wagon 1.6 N/A - 52mpg
'84 Wasserboxer - DOA, parts donor
'94 Passat wagon VR6
'03 Jetta TDI wagon 230K, 52.3mpg
'89 Jetta N/A - 51mpg
'82 Caddy 1.6 N/A - Sold
Fatmobile
Global Moderator
Posts: 7564
Joined: Wed Oct 30, 2002 10:28 pm
Location: north central Iowa

Re: Need help, out of ideas. Heavy smoke and running poorly

Post by Fatmobile »

Got clear fuel lines?
Air in the fuel will cause white smoke.

Retarded timing will also cause white smoke.
Setting the pump with a gauge just gets you in the area.
Try marking where the pump is and advancing it little.
'91 Golf gasser converted to a 12mm pump, M-TDI.
'84 1.6TD Rabbit with a VNT-15 turbo, still setup to run on vegetable oil.
'84 GTI with 1.7TD pistons and intercooled.
2003 TDI wagon
2000 TDI Jetta.
Carterwlsn
Glow Plug
Posts: 4
Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2016 9:47 pm

Re: Need help, out of ideas. Heavy smoke and running poorly

Post by Carterwlsn »

OK,
I'm really stumped now and out of ideas. I installed a new rebuilt pump I ordered, and a new fuel filter. Timing is set to 0.98mm like always. I have clear fuel lines and I see no bubbles. I have the exact same problem. Heavy smoke and very low power. The engine seems to run good with the exception of the problems. I can't even drive the car it is so under powered. I removed the hose from the turbo to the intake to see if something changes.... nothing.

I would be throwing parts at it now. Maybe new injectors... even though the ones I have tested good?

I do have another question. Is it possible to install the flywheel off top dead center with the #1 cylinder? And it still run? I did pull the injector and glow plug . I'm about 99% sure I have #1 at TDC with the flywheel.

Thank you,
Carter
TylerDurden
Turbo Charger
Posts: 1285
Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2009 1:01 pm
Location: Michigami, USA

Re: Need help, out of ideas. Heavy smoke and running poorly

Post by TylerDurden »

It sounds like all should be well: compression, timing and fuel... but clearly something is not well.

I'd still advance the timing and see if it improves.

I'd also bottle feed the IP from a clean container (to/from IP) to remove the fuel supply from the equation.
Have a nice day.


'91 Jetta ECOdiesel TD - clean & complete (less motor/tranny) for sale

'82 Westy Vanagon 1.9 N/A - 23.5mpg
'86 Jetta TD - 45-50mpg
'81 Dasher Wagon 1.6 N/A - 52mpg
'84 Wasserboxer - DOA, parts donor
'94 Passat wagon VR6
'03 Jetta TDI wagon 230K, 52.3mpg
'89 Jetta N/A - 51mpg
'82 Caddy 1.6 N/A - Sold
TylerDurden
Turbo Charger
Posts: 1285
Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2009 1:01 pm
Location: Michigami, USA

Re: Need help, out of ideas. Heavy smoke and running poorly

Post by TylerDurden »

I don't mean to insult, but you are timing to the 0 mark on the flywheel? ...

Some are hard to see, just the diamond shaped nick, some are a blobby punch with the nick, most of mine look like the pic, with the nick and a meager 0 under:
Image

Maybe another type of flywheel was installed...?
Have a nice day.


'91 Jetta ECOdiesel TD - clean & complete (less motor/tranny) for sale

'82 Westy Vanagon 1.9 N/A - 23.5mpg
'86 Jetta TD - 45-50mpg
'81 Dasher Wagon 1.6 N/A - 52mpg
'84 Wasserboxer - DOA, parts donor
'94 Passat wagon VR6
'03 Jetta TDI wagon 230K, 52.3mpg
'89 Jetta N/A - 51mpg
'82 Caddy 1.6 N/A - Sold
Carterwlsn
Glow Plug
Posts: 4
Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2016 9:47 pm

Re: Need help, out of ideas. Heavy smoke and running poorly

Post by Carterwlsn »

I am timing the flywheel to the diamond nick on the flywheel. I tried a few things today and it improved some. First I ran the engine from a bottle with clear fuel lines. After the air purged, there is no bubbles in or out. No change.
I tried advancing and retarding the timing while it was running. No change with the smoke.

I pulled the injectors from a old turbo 1.6 I have, and swapped them in my engine. To my suprise they worked quite well with the N/A pump. The smoke cleared up at least 75%. The car still had no power so I turned up the fueling screw. Just a little black smoke when you step on the gas full throttle.
I loaded up the engine driving down the street. The blueish/white smokes is very heavy under load and it clears up alot at idle.

One thing I did notice is the smoke is not completely white. It is a blueish white. So I'm having a hard time deciding if it is fuel or oil related. Im just thinking, but I may have made a mistake possibly when I reworked the head. I lapped the valves after I installed the valve guide seals. Do you think oil could be leaking past them? But why does it become heavy under load at higher RPM's?
Thanks for the help
Fatmobile
Global Moderator
Posts: 7564
Joined: Wed Oct 30, 2002 10:28 pm
Location: north central Iowa

Re: Need help, out of ideas. Heavy smoke and running poorly

Post by Fatmobile »

Sooo you advanced the timing by turning the pump while it was running and the smoke didn't clear?
Because .98 is a little low for a TD.
Something to check,... when the flywheel is at TDC,.. where is the dot on the crank pully?
Is it at 7:30?
Thinking it is possible that the flywheel is on wrong, doesn't happen often but it has happened.
Didn't time it 180 degrees out did you? Crank goes around twice for every one time the injection pump goes around.
'91 Golf gasser converted to a 12mm pump, M-TDI.
'84 1.6TD Rabbit with a VNT-15 turbo, still setup to run on vegetable oil.
'84 GTI with 1.7TD pistons and intercooled.
2003 TDI wagon
2000 TDI Jetta.
Post Reply