What parts/tools will I need for TB & frnt seal replacem

[Brian Rages]

Hi, everybody.

I've got a 1986 Jetta 1.6 NA and I've been noticing that it leaks a bit of oil. Enough so that I'd rather not park it in my garage. But, with winter coming around, I'd really like to start garaging it. And maybe adding a block heater for help on the really cold mornings.

The oil leak seems to be coming from one or more of the seals on the passenger side end of the motor. I think the oil is probably not good for the timing belt, and I don't really know the age of the timing belt anyway. So I'd like to replace the crank, intermediate, and camshaft seals and put on a new timing belt at the same time. I think I'll also replace the water pump while I've got everything off, and pop in a block heater while I have the block drained for the water pump.

So, obviously, I've got a ton of work planned for this car. Since it's my daily driver, and by far the most efficient vehicle for my 50-mile-a-day commute, I want to get this done as quickly and efficiently as possible.

What parts/tools should I plan on buying?

And if anyone in the Saint Louis area has tools to loan/rent or wants to borrow tools after I'm done, let me know!

[Winnipeg Golf]

You can find info on the block heater here: http://www.zerostart.com/publications.asp

Derek

[Brian Rages]

Well, I figure the block heater and water pump should be (relatively) E-Z. I don't think either will require special tools, and I have already located (1) a water pump assembly for about $50, and (2) a freeze plug block heater for about $25.

I'm more worried about the timing belt and seal replacement. I have studied the timing belt replacement procedure, and it seems like the needed tools for a timing belt replacement are:

Cam locking plate
Tensioner tool
Injection pump locking tool

These are relatively cheap. The procedure, as I understand it, revolves around not putting the belt on one tooth off, and turning the engine over by hand a couple times to make sure everything clears.

However, I *thought* I had seen a procedure where cam timing was reset by loosening the cam pulley and adjusting it until it was *just right*.

All this may be moot because I want to replace the seals on that end of the engine. That is the cam, intermediate shaft, and crank.

[srivett]

The injection tool is simply a 1/4" drive 11 mm deep socket of any brand. The tensioner tool can be improvised very easily and the cam locking tool can be improvised if you wish. If you do a search on tools here you'll see what I mean.

Steve

[Brian Rages]

Thanks for the tips.

I'm quite willing to purchase the tools I need, but I'm trying to make a laundry-list of any special items I may have to buy, since my car will be out of commission while I do the work and I don't want to have to wait to order tools while my car is taken apart.

Mostly, I'm concerned about the seal replacement and pulling the int. shaft, camshaft, and crank pulleys.

[Guest]

Thanks for the tips.

I'm quite willing to purchase the tools I need, but I'm trying to make a laundry-list of any special items I may have to buy, since my car will be out of commission while I do the work and I don't want to have to wait to order tools while my car is taken apart.

Mostly, I'm concerned about the seal replacement and pulling the int. shaft, camshaft, and crank pulleys.

You might want to see for sure where the oil leak is before you start replacing every seal. A lot of the time the oil is just leaking from the valve cover gasket but it looks like it is coming from lots of different places. I know the cam pulley is easy to take off because it is a taper lock. You just lock the cam and then undo the bolt on the pulley and hit it off with a hammer. Intermediate shaft and crank I'm not sure about. Crank might be hard because you would have to stop the crank from turning somehow. You might also want to do a quick compression test on your cylinders to see what you have. Sometimes the reason why those engines leak oil is because the crankcase gets pressurized with air because of excessive blow by past worn piston rings. This is especially true of turbos.
The only tool you really need to do the timing belt is a dial gauge with the special attachment to fit it into the injection pump. The tension on the belt can be tested by twisting the belt 45 degrees. Like the other guy said, use a socket to lock the pump and use anything that will fit (I use two metal files) to lock the cam. You really need to check the pump timing with a dial gauge when you're done though as it can get quite a bit out of time after the belt is replaced.

[fatmobile]

I know the cam pulley is easy to take off because it is a taper lock. You just lock the cam and then undo the bolt on the pulley

If you use the slot in the back of the cam to lock the cam in place while you break the bolt loose, you can break the rear of the cam ... where the slot is.
Has been done by people on here a couple times now but hasn't been mentioned in awhile.
If you are changing your belt anyway, break the cam bolt loose while the belt is on. If not, this could streach the belt, making it weaker ... if the bolt is real tight.
I've never used an injection pump locking pin.
Weld a bar to an old crank pully. Bolt it to the crank/gear. This will keep the crank from turning when you go to torque the NEW crank bolt down ... if you are serious about changing the crank seal. If the crank bolt really doesn't want to come out, use some heat ... not just some propane torch either. I had a socket welded to the crank bolt ...the impact socket we broke trying to loosen it ... that made it come off real easy.
I-shaft has a skinny green o-ring and a seal to replace.
Sounds like you can afford one of the reusable, rubber, G-60 valve cover gaskets. They seal way better and don't have to be replaced every time you get in there.
Do you have a plastic cam splash shield? Open the oil fill cap ... plastic or cam? Get one.
Do you have solid lifters? I hear they were supposed to be phased out in '85 but I think I've seen them on an '86 Jetta. If you do, adjust those while you are in there.

[Brian Rages]

I was wondering if I had a leaky valve cover gasket, but I recently cleaned my engine to see if that was the case, and it appears that my leakage is coming from the passenger-side end of the motor.

My 86 does have hydraulic lifters, and I think it has the splash shield. I don't have any spare parts, so the "weld a bar onto the crank pulley" trick might not work too well for me. I am tossing around the idea of using an impact wrench, but I don't know if I can even get it on the crank, and I'd be guessing at the torque when I put it back on.

It's possible that my oil leak is just coming from ONE of those three seals, and I could leave the other two alone. I think the cam seal is okay, but I bet the crank or intermediate shaft seal is bad.

Now I've heard that if your intermediate shaft bearings are shot, you can replace the int. shaft seal and the seal will quickly wear out and leak again... that worries me.

[Winnipeg Golf]

I had leaky seals (cam, intermediate, crank) on my 1.6 hydraulic and it was really hard to tell if they were coming from the valve cover gasket or the seals. Turns out that one of the shaft seals was leaking and so was the valve cover gasket. The only evidence I had was a drip spot exactly under the face of the passenger-side of the block.

If you're going to replace one shaft seal I would probably replace them all because you're going to have to remove the timing belt & cover to get at them anyways.

The splash shield is HIGHLY recommended if you don't have one...it greatly increases the lifespan of those cork valve cover gaskets.

Derek

[Guest]

My 86 does have hydraulic lifters, and I think it has the splash shield. I don't have any spare parts, so the "weld a bar onto the crank pulley" trick might not work too well for me. I am tossing around the idea of using an impact wrench, but I don't know if I can even get it on the crank, and I'd be guessing at the torque when I put it back on.

Don't do that. You have to get the torque right. Otherwise the pulley can come off, along with the timing belt, and then you have a destroyed cylinder head. This is especially true of the crank pulley.

It's possible that my oil leak is just coming from ONE of those three seals, and I could leave the other two alone. I think the cam seal is okay, but I bet the crank or intermediate shaft seal is bad.

Spray down the side of the engine where you think the leak is coming from, then go for a drive. Then look and see where the oil is coming from. It should be fairly obvious.

Now I've heard that if your intermediate shaft bearings are shot, you can replace the int. shaft seal and the seal will quickly wear out and leak again... that worries me.

if the bearings are shot, then probably so is the rest of the engine and you will need to rebuild it. I've found that those engines won't last over 400,000km usually, unless they're really babied. The one in my TD Jetta did 350,000 before it gave up (wouldn't start, no compression in one cylinder and low in the other three), but it was very rebuildable (could re-use the original pistons) and now runs great again.

[Fatmobile]

Yep if the I-shaft bearings are so bad they allow the I-shaft to move around and destroy your new seal.. You've got bigger problems than a leaky seal.
Usually those bearings have chunks fall off. They don't just wear thinner.
This doesn't lead to the shaft moving around, so the seal won't be hurt.
An oil pressure gauge will usually tell you if these bearings are falling apart and letting large amounts of oil past.
I've replaced I-shaft bearings and gotten many more miles out of an engine. I concider 150,000 miles to be time to change these bearings ...at least that's when I notice them starting to break up.

[Brian Rages]

My motor has 237,000 miles on it... gentle miles, I assume. I have an oil pressure gauge - what is a good pressure that I should be seeing?

[poptotwoboys]

I found this old post and wish to revisit it.

I just rebuilt my first diesel motor and replaced the piston rings, bearings, seals and gaskets. The learnig curve hasn't been as steep as it could have been, it pays to use the resources of this fourm.

When I park I notice a drip spot "exactly under the face of the passenger-side of the block." It could be any of the oil seals damaged during installation.

Sometime this weekend I will dive in to find out the source of the leak, until then, here's my newby inquiry.

When I replace the camshaft oil seal I lubricated the inside of the seal before sliping it over the end of the cam and then tightened the camshaft bearing caps. Was that the proper method? Should the cam bearings be tightened first then tap the oil seal into place?

[Fatmobile]

i think either way will work.
I usually put it in, then tighten the cap.
I've never seen a cam seal leak around the outer edge of the seal.
I commonly see them leak from around the cam. The seal is so close to the taper that the outer dust lip doesn't even touch the cam.
Someday I'm going to figure out a better seal to use for the cam.
Pulling the upper timing belt cover should show if this is where it's leaking from.

[jets]

I know 99% of you guys drive LHD cars but for the 1% with RHD cars ref. to passenger side of engine can be misinterpreted. I suggest just to say RHS.
I don't know how many people know but the 3 seals on the 'RHS' of the engine are the same size. This makes it worthwhile to turn up a correct size tool to install them.