TDI adaptability

This forum is for TDI (Turbo Direct Injection) questions/posts. Non-TDI Motors (Including the 1.6, and 1.9 or other variant turbo diesel motors) should go in the VW Diesel General Forum

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Marty
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TDI adaptability

Post by Marty »

:?: Building a TDI powered race car (rear wheeel drive) and have a 1.5 liter gas block to use as a dummy for chassis layout...Question: Are the block to transmission bolt patterns the same on all the VW crosswise mounted 4 cyl. engines? That is, can I use the engine I have as a pattern to build my transmission adapter and expect a late model 1.9 TDI motor to bolt up? Also are there signifigant differences between a 98 TDI and later years that would make the later engines better for a racing engine?
coke

Post by coke »

The newer TDI's use a new fuel delivery technology. All TDI's have computers. I've heard the best way to install a TDI in a non-tdi vehicle is to get a junkyard model and grab the ENTIRE WIRING harness. Im fairly certain a person installed a TDI into his pickup and didn't have many problems bolting it up. If you search for TDI conversion on here you can probably find something.
Marty
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Post by Marty »

:D Thanks, plan is to use a T-5 gearbox behind the VW diesel..will let you know how that works out...can see some starter motor issues looming, but working with some very sharp machinists who are good problem solvers.

Again, is there is a particular version of the TDI engine that is best suited to lots of tubo boost and diesel overdoses?

Cheers, Marty
Piper106
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Post by Piper106 »

As been told more than once, the trans end bolt pattern is the same on all VW four cylinder engines from the 70s Rabbit/Golf I to the newest 2.0 and 1.8T gas and 2.0L PD diesels.

I am also working on adapting to a T-5 trans for my RWD project. If you are interested, PM me and I can share some of what I have found out.

The latest PD pump engines on the 2004 and later cars have the most power stock, but as far as I know the only way is with the factory electronic management system and all the associated wiring. I'd go with the 1.9L TDI distributor pump engine out of a 98-2003 A4 chassis. You can run the stock electronic management like Coke indicates. Or take a look over at vwdiesel.net where there are some TDIs that have been converted to mechanical pumps.

Piper106
Marty
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Post by Marty »

:) Thanks Piper, info makes my life much easier. Have a junk gas long block to use for mocking up and just acquired a T-5 yesterday. Will be looking at adapting over the next few weeks. Any info you can share would be very helpful. Since our project is a race car (Bonneville) plan to use a Tilton 7.25 inch double disc clutch which should fit nicely on the VW flywheel.
Regards, Marty
Piper106
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Post by Piper106 »

Wow. sounds like you are out in front of me already.

I'm using a bell housing from a Chevy S-10 with 2.8 V6 engine, and a plate between the VW engine block and the S-10 bell. That bell just clears the water outlet on the end of the cylinder head, the bigger SB Chevy and Ford 5.0L V8 bolt pattern bells would wind up with the water outlet inside the bell housing.

What did the T5 originally come from? That affects a lot of parts in the build up. I'd go with a T5 from a GM product if you still have a choice, it looks like that is a better fit to a VW than a T5 from a V8 Mustang. A T5 from a Camaro V8 has some nice close gearing.

If you already have the Tilton double disc clutch, your best bet might be to get a flywheel from a Dasher, Quantum (must be a four cylinder Quantum, most Quantums in the US were five cylinder and those flywheels have a different bolt pattern that will not fit a four cylinder crank), or a Fox. These are flat face flywheels with the starter ring gear in front that could mate to a starter mounted alongside the block.

If you haven't bought a clutch yet, I'd be tempted to go with the SPEC flywheel and pressure plate intended for a 98-05 Passat with the 1.8T engine. Standard Chevy clutch discs that would fit the T5 input shaft appear to fit that flywheel / pressure plate combo. SPEC makes it sound like if you go with the right parts from their basket, they can handle over 400 foot-pounds torque.

If your class rules require a working starter, I would suggest the gear reduction starter intended for a classic air cooled VW sedan transaxle that has been repower with a Honda four cylinder, Kennedy Enginnering item IMI-101RR.

As far as a pilot bearing, as far as I know all T5s originally installed in GM vehicles had 15 mm pilots on the input shaft, you can use the Quantum pilot bearing (NAPA part BK6151143). Mustang V8 T5s have a 17 mm pilot, in that case I don't know of a suitable needle bearing, you might have to make a special pilot bearing out of Oillite bronze.

That is all I think I know.

Piper106
Marty
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Post by Marty »

The tranny is from a Cougar turbo coupe...may have been a mistake, but the price was right and I believe it has the highest overdrive ratio available. Input shaft is 1 1/16 10 spline w/ 15 mm pilot (three cheers) Not concerned about close ratio gears, it's the overall that's a problem. Trying to get a 200 mph combination with a low reving motor is a bit of a struggle and may eventually wind up with some sort of quick change.

Also planned to use an S-10 bell housing and have a Dasher flywheel so looks liked we're sort of on the same track.

Starter is not required, but almost mandatory for garage tuning and can't imagine much success trying to push start a diesel engine with little skinny slick tires on the salt flats.
Starter suggestions are extremely valuable, I hadn't gotten that far yet.

One other possibilty - since rules require a 1/4 inch steel scattershield, we may fabricate the entire bell housing...steel plates on each end to match VW and T-5, rolled steel tube to connect same...sounds easy, bet it's not.
For our purposes - land speed racing - weight is not much of an issue..in fact many of the cars run large water tanks and big chunks of lead ballast to improve traction on the dirt at El Mrage and the salt at Bonneville.

Thanks again, Marty
Piper106
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Post by Piper106 »

There is a link to " TDI engine CAD drawing (PDF) " at www.haywood-sullivan.com/vanagon/TDI that shows the VW engine trans end bolt pattern.

If you want to mate to a 2.8L V6 bell housing there was a drawing of that bolt pattern at www.60degreev6.com The post was in the transmission section, titled " Trans face bolt pattern dwg " with Piper106 as the topic starter back in June 2004. Alas it is archived, and the drawing does not open. Maybe the forum moderator could reopen if asked nicely.

If you want to get running while you find or make a scattershield, the bell housing from a 94 or 95 S-10 with the 2.2L four and a T-5 has the GM small bolt pattern (another name for the 2.8L V6 bolt pattern) on the engine side, and a bolt pattern that will fit your Ford/Mercury T-5 on the trans end. This is a OEM cast aluminum bell, not blast proof.

Enjoy

Piper106
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Re: TDI adaptability

Post by Idontgetit »

I have an old '86 Toyota pickup I am looking to do a TDI swap with. Does anyone know if the 1.9 TDI Bell housing pattern is the same as the 2.0 TDI Bell Housing pattern? Are there any major differences between the back end of the 1.9 engine vs. the 2.0 engine? There is a company that makes adapters from a 22R transmission and bellhousing to a 1.9 TDI but I know that the 1.9L TDI's are becoming harder to find. Was thinking of the 2.0L TDI but not sure about compatibility.
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