My starter packed it in a few days ago. Lucky it was in the mountains and I was on a hill. I drove back to Montreal, parked it, opened up the starter and was horrified. The starter died once before too but it was only hours (driving hours) after the td engine swap. That death is understandable since the starter was old and had to crank a bigger motor. I caught a flatbed truck from the main highway thanks to the police within 10 minutes. I ended up at the driver's garage. He was good and efficacious and found a re-builder for the starter. So I get handed this sparkling starter over the counter, recognize it as mine and ask what was wrong with it? He says brushes and solenoid changed for Bosch parts... all Bosch.
It is not easy but do not trust this starter rebuilding work to anybody but the most intrepid shop. I looked at all the Bosch parts in my starter and found them to be all-original including the brushes. The brushes and Com. are in good shape mind you. But the grease on the drive and shaft is thick, full of grit and sticky. That starter I just overhauled was "rebuilt" by a place in Riviere de Loup (wolf river) that "specialized" in starters and alternators. Not to sound too biter but they were/ are cons..... charged way too much money and didn't do anything but put grease throughout the starter.... not a new solenoid not even new brushes. Do it yourself. Please
IMHO these Bosch starters do not need any grease. There are brass bushings for all the main axle bearing points so the most you can do is clean all surfaces well (no grease), apply graphite powder liberally and put it back together clean.
I bought a new Brazilian solenoid for $23 cleaned free of oil and dressed with graphite. Bosch was $80+ and would take weeks. Also need was real Bosch Torx bolts for the solenoid to replace the crappy Phillips that nearly mangled before coming out (torch, impact, hammer.)
The shaft of the starter was jammed by particle imbedded grease... and very difficult to move by hand even. I cleaned the whole thing with carb.. cleaner and a toothbrush.... paying special attention to the spiral splines.
Btw don't get carb cleaner in your starter drive... it kills it. Out of ignorance I used the spray carb cleaner and scrapped the weirdo clutch/ gear thing on the sliding drive shaft. I hooked up my new starter after testing it on my bench (plywood on dinner table) and it sounded like motor missing a bearing (and no cranking of engine.) Once the motor screaming and my cursing quieted down I called a friend about it. He says it's the drive and so I will change that tomorrow. In the mean time I want to share my overhaul pictures with you.
http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/3322 ... oils.0.jpg
Cutting the coil contact to change old wires on both the supply to the coil and the lead from the coil to the brushes.
http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/3322 ... rimp.0.jpg
I used crimps and silver solder incase it ever gets hot enough to melt the metal.
http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/3322 ... iron.0.jpg
Big ass 300w iron thanks to Keith.
http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/3322 ... eads.0.jpg
New connections with crimps covered with shrink tube.
http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/3322 ... G_3984.jpg
Also crucial is that the ground for the brushes must be new metal. So the cap at the brush end should be cleaned from rust, screws, washers and body too. Check for end play, clean and lube with graphite.
New solenoid and soon new drive.
Rebuilding Vanagon Starter
Moderator: Fatmobile
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stopping
- Diesel Freak
- Posts: 199
- Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2005 2:53 pm
- Location: Montreal, QC, and StJohn's, Nfld, Canada
Rebuilding Vanagon Starter
Last edited by stopping on Mon Nov 20, 2006 12:41 am, edited 2 times in total.
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stopping
- Diesel Freak
- Posts: 199
- Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2005 2:53 pm
- Location: Montreal, QC, and StJohn's, Nfld, Canada
driver
The driver body/ clutch as it turns out is only available from Germany.
I will order it.
And my mechanic buddy swears I should have put grease in all the bushings.
I got my driver/ clutch thing to work but I had to run acetone through it many times till it ran clear. For good measure I baked it at 250C for 30 minutes turning it around every 5. I love to cook. The van cranks well now.
What do you folks think about the grease/ graphite/ moly on the starter bushings? Remember it's cold here. Have you ever seen grease at -40C/F and how sticky it becomes?
Now... if I had known from the beginning that this starter needed a driver, the solenoid and the main wires, I would have cored it and bought a new one.
On the other hand, I know much more about starters.
I will order it.
And my mechanic buddy swears I should have put grease in all the bushings.
I got my driver/ clutch thing to work but I had to run acetone through it many times till it ran clear. For good measure I baked it at 250C for 30 minutes turning it around every 5. I love to cook. The van cranks well now.
What do you folks think about the grease/ graphite/ moly on the starter bushings? Remember it's cold here. Have you ever seen grease at -40C/F and how sticky it becomes?
Now... if I had known from the beginning that this starter needed a driver, the solenoid and the main wires, I would have cored it and bought a new one.
On the other hand, I know much more about starters.
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stopping
- Diesel Freak
- Posts: 199
- Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2005 2:53 pm
- Location: Montreal, QC, and StJohn's, Nfld, Canada
Ok Andrew, thanks... I will use the moly-graphite lube for the parts with high pressure.... both bearings at each end and a bit on the shaft at the flywheel end. Hopefully I can find it.
I have a problem now and one that is not going away. The starter drive died. The one I "cleaned". I think it is clean but it looks like the bearings in it were too damaged to keep on holding. It lasted about 60-70 starts and now it slips again. I think it slips... BTW... because I can hear it sometimes... it cranks the engine, then... it slips... the motor wines up.
This is the point.....
I need to find the driver/ bendix.
My Bosch dealer found someone to rebuild it so thats where mine is now. However I would like some piece of mind and want to have another one in stock. My Bosch dealer can't seem to get it (they were sent the wrong one -from Bosch distribution- when they asked for the right number.) and have given up.
Please help.... this is the only vehicle I have and I have no garage too work on it. The van is my key tool in building/ construction work... and it is a much relied on tool. It and I are being hung-up by this one very rare part.
I have a problem now and one that is not going away. The starter drive died. The one I "cleaned". I think it is clean but it looks like the bearings in it were too damaged to keep on holding. It lasted about 60-70 starts and now it slips again. I think it slips... BTW... because I can hear it sometimes... it cranks the engine, then... it slips... the motor wines up.
This is the point.....
I need to find the driver/ bendix.
My Bosch dealer found someone to rebuild it so thats where mine is now. However I would like some piece of mind and want to have another one in stock. My Bosch dealer can't seem to get it (they were sent the wrong one -from Bosch distribution- when they asked for the right number.) and have given up.
Please help.... this is the only vehicle I have and I have no garage too work on it. The van is my key tool in building/ construction work... and it is a much relied on tool. It and I are being hung-up by this one very rare part.
I had similar trouble getting a new starrter to work on my diesel vanagon. After installation, it turned the engine the first time I tried it, but afterward only spun noisily but didn't turn the engine. Took it out and tested it, bendix and motor worked fine outside bellhousing. Put it back in, same problem. Turned out the starter wasn't correctly aligned with the engine, starter gear hitting flywheel too close to center, not meshing.
Solved problem by inserting a thin shim between starter and bellhousing at top of starter, effectively tipping the starter away from the flywheel to where teeth of starter gear and flywheel would mesh.
If you've had the oilpan off, you have to be sure that, when you put it back on, its rear surface is exactly on the plane of the rear of the block. Since the bellhousing bolts to the pan in two places, if those two places aren't in the plane of the block, then the bellhousing probably isn't mounted perfectly square to the block. If the bellhousing isn't square to the block, then the starter isn't either. Not to mention the transmission. The Bentley book cautions about this, saying that a bad alignment of the pan results in distorting and/or breaking the bell housing.
That was probably the beginning of my problem. I loosened the pan and repositioned it correctlyafterward, but still needed the shim, which is still there.
Or maybe there's enough variance in the Bosch starters that a shim is just required sometimes. I have replaced starters in American vehicles, and a shim was packaged with the new starter.
Solved problem by inserting a thin shim between starter and bellhousing at top of starter, effectively tipping the starter away from the flywheel to where teeth of starter gear and flywheel would mesh.
If you've had the oilpan off, you have to be sure that, when you put it back on, its rear surface is exactly on the plane of the rear of the block. Since the bellhousing bolts to the pan in two places, if those two places aren't in the plane of the block, then the bellhousing probably isn't mounted perfectly square to the block. If the bellhousing isn't square to the block, then the starter isn't either. Not to mention the transmission. The Bentley book cautions about this, saying that a bad alignment of the pan results in distorting and/or breaking the bell housing.
That was probably the beginning of my problem. I loosened the pan and repositioned it correctlyafterward, but still needed the shim, which is still there.
Or maybe there's enough variance in the Bosch starters that a shim is just required sometimes. I have replaced starters in American vehicles, and a shim was packaged with the new starter.
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stopping
- Diesel Freak
- Posts: 199
- Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2005 2:53 pm
- Location: Montreal, QC, and StJohn's, Nfld, Canada
Howdy Gramps
I thought of that alignment issue and listened for it. The thing that convinced me it was not that problem is that the starter engaged, started cranking the engine then slipped. To me that is simply the Bendix clutch slipping.
Please correct me but I think that bad alignment would simply never engage the flywheel and it might be (as I am told) that the motor will not start spinning since it never reaches the gear. I think that would keep the solenoid from giving juice to the motor.
Having said that..... I wonder what killed the bendex clutch in the first place...I think it was grease in the clutch from the inside (shaft) but maybe it was the pinion sticking on the flywheel for too long due to bad alignment?
TWIM concern... in my supplies I found some of that synth/ silicone brake caliper lube to lube the bushings of the starter. It seems to not get sticky in the cold weather. Could not find a graphite/ moly combo.
I thought of that alignment issue and listened for it. The thing that convinced me it was not that problem is that the starter engaged, started cranking the engine then slipped. To me that is simply the Bendix clutch slipping.
Please correct me but I think that bad alignment would simply never engage the flywheel and it might be (as I am told) that the motor will not start spinning since it never reaches the gear. I think that would keep the solenoid from giving juice to the motor.
Having said that..... I wonder what killed the bendex clutch in the first place...I think it was grease in the clutch from the inside (shaft) but maybe it was the pinion sticking on the flywheel for too long due to bad alignment?
TWIM concern... in my supplies I found some of that synth/ silicone brake caliper lube to lube the bushings of the starter. It seems to not get sticky in the cold weather. Could not find a graphite/ moly combo.