internal injection pump pressure

[levi20ae]

Tonight I measured and adjusted the pump pressure.

After 5 adjustments I left it alone. I did not notice a change in idle or sound after any of the adjustments. It does seem peppier in the upper RPMs and no noticeable increase in smoke, so overall I'm happy. I am worried that maybe my pump is dieing or just getting wore out. As you can see the slope of the lines in each of my measurements after incrementally increasing the pressure were the same. The slope is no where near as steepaswhat is documented in previous post on this thread though. Is this a bad thing? It looks like it but the truck runs great and still does 70 mph or 75 if i really want to push it.

[/img]

[Fatmobile]

Great work with the graph.
Thanks for posting it.
That gives a great idea of what is going on.
I think a stiffer pressure regulator spring would increase the slope.
I should have asked my bosch service tech when I visited him yesterday.

[wolf_walker]

My slope is flatter than that on both my pumps, love to know if there is an easy fix. Seems like a stuffer spring would be no different than driving the adjustment plug down further, making the tension on the plunger higher either way, yes? Maybe the spring is not linear?

[Mk1Ultra]

My setup:


I used a pedestal from a n/a diesel and drilled and tapped a standard compression fitting in order to use a mechanical oil pressure gauge. The pedestals are readily available. Two stacked together would allow easy fitting to a TD pump. One works fine for a n/a pump.

Andrew

Andrew,
Where did you get the pedestal? Do you have a part number? I can't find it on ETKA or google. Thanks!
~Jon

[rabbit_man]

I believe that's off a NA IP, I can't remember what year or model though.

I do know they're hard to get.

P.S. Andrew isn't on this forum anymore, someone thought it was a good idea to throw mud in his face (with a PM) since he was too right about something......

[Fatmobile]

I might have posted the part number earlier on this thread,..
but when I went to the dealership and bought one,..
it was much shorter than the stock piece,. too short.

[81caddyGuy]

I found while in communication with adaptall the following info.

I gather from your description that you would like a bushing that
is male 12x1.5 - female 12x1.5 rigid in an attempt to gain at least 1" of standoff. For small quantities I suggest a two piece solution, part # 9001-12-12( male nipple) #9043M-12-12(rigid coupling) & 9500-12mm (bonded seal).This combination will give you about 1 1/4. For pricing please call us at 1-800-463-8134 and we will find a distributor in your area that you can purchase from.>>

this was from an email from adaptall (adaptall.com) you can look up the pictures there and this two piece setup will give a solid section up to to drill and tap of a veariety of your hearts desire to measure IP internal pressure. The male-male fitting will screw into the IP the the female-female up on top followed by your out banjo bolt and line block.

[Mk1Ultra]

81caddyguy,

Thanks for the response! After extensive searching, I've located a supplier of said fittings online: DiscountHydraulicHose.com

Prices for the part numbers you listed are as follows:

• 9001-12-12 | M12x1.5 Male Metric x M12x1.5 Male Metric (Steel) - $6.77

• 9043M-12-12 | M12x1.5 Female Metric x M12x1.5 Female Metric (Steel) - $14.88

• 9500-12MM | Bonded Seal, 12MM Metric (Buna) - $0.65

• Total (before shipping): $22.30

(too lazy to call, would rather buy online)

Thanks again for the info...if I end up going this route I'll post pictures of the setup when I do my pump re-seal sometime in the near future.

[81caddyGuy]

Yeah i found a factory riser on an eco diesel in a local junk yard. I think now I am gonna get the whole engine and tranny. mine has been running crazy in the mornings

[mtran]

In local shop they made this for 5 euro,I find it simple way.Best

[Fatmobile]

Looks like a banjo would go on the bottom,
and another on the top.

With a setup like that you would not need a hole tapped in the side.

The bottom banjo would be under pressure,
you could hook a pressure gauge up to that.

All others that I've seen are just threaded on the bottom,
not set up for a lower banjo.

[mtran]

Yes Fatmobile,bottom banjo would be under pressure and use for gauge and top is standart OUT by this way same can drive all time,sorry I did not clear betterfor another one.

[Quantum-man]

Tonight I measured and adjusted the pump pressure.

After 5 adjustments I left it alone. I did not notice a change in idle or sound after any of the adjustments. It does seem peppier in the upper RPMs and no noticeable increase in smoke, so overall I'm happy. I am worried that maybe my pump is dieing or just getting wore out. As you can see the slope of the lines in each of my measurements after incrementally increasing the pressure were the same. The slope is no where near as steepaswhat is documented in previous post on this thread though. Is this a bad thing? It looks like it but the truck runs great and still does 70 mph or 75 if i really want to push it.

[/img]

Greetings chaps,
I have been meaning to sort this part of the 'sticky' out for a while...
Here is my version of the graph:

Oops,I had better explain it first

The graph looks a little busy, but if I explain that the green lines are aproximately Levi's iterations.

The orange line is the corrected version of the data provided by Hagar.
Note
1) The line wasn't quite as steep as thought, ie at 2000rpm pump, it should read 141psi, not 150psi
2) This slope represents the old 1.5 107A pump only.

The Pink line is taken from the mid points of the range of values as graphed by those SAE people. for the 1.6 TD, [n/a also?]

My car is represented by the yellow lines.

Note how both Levi's and my graphs are pretty well parallel to the required spec.


Conclusions
Note that for Levi, he actually went too far, and his second adjustment was 'better' than my final result. and almost underneath the apparent 'correct' graph.
I belive that most punters out there have misread the situation, and have made uneccessary adjustments.

My first measurement of my pump gave quite low readings, yet the car performed quite reasonably.
I therefore believe that as long as the pressures are enough to advance the dynamic timing, then starting lower down just means that your pump needs physical advancement to take up the slack,
and will still give same rate of advance.
Increasing the internal pump pressure may help avoiding voids at WOT, but beyonsd some minimum, serve no benefit other than to increase liability of a 'burst seal'

I may add to this later, but I'm in a rush to provide ferret racing for someone's wedding reception in an hour
RESIZED

[Quantum-man]

Here is my method of measuring the injection pump’s lift pump pressure:

I felt sure that the existing outbolt could be used to hold both the out banjo and the gauge banjo. Unfortunately the bolt is the same length as the two banjos.





To overcome this, I first ground down the gauge banjo. This gained me about 4mm.



Next I filed by hand, the bolt head. This gave me another 2mm or so.
I still needed to pinch more to give myself enough exposed thread to hold all snug. Relying on the accuracy of the ground face of the gauge banjo, sealing on the pump body, I was able to avoid needing a washer there. Under this banjo, I cut a slit in the thread of the out bolt down to the inner gauze. This allowed the internal pump pressure to enter the banjo.
Sudden inspiration, allowed me to create an ultra thin seal to rest at the end of the thread, and prevent the high pressure leaking into the standard out banjo… Milk bottle polythene! A washer made of this slightly under sized, easily pushed over the threads and sealed inside the gauge banjo


Another piece of bottle pushed to the back of the head of the bolt sealed the filed inner face of the out bolt to the standard out banjo.
Note, that because I gained a few mm from the bolt head and removed the thick copper washer next to the bolt head; the standard metered outlet hole was under the flange of the outlet banjo. Rough grinding of the area next to the hole and towards the bolt head; directs the returning oil into the banjo.



It worked first time, and gave me 3½ thread turns into the pump body. Maths computation tells me that those threads are more than enough for the pressures involved.
The outlet banjo shown below is for demo purposes only,and slightly thicker than standard...




With this setup, all I need to do, is remove existing out bolt and copper washers, and then insert modified bolt and washers and add the gauge attached to it’s own banjo. Gauge viewing is near pump, as I can either use my mobile tach., or, the strobe frequency counter, as I push on the pump accelerator lever¦

[DanHoug]

just for the heck of it, i tapped my regulator down a bit... no pressure gauge. the piston was really stuck and i couldn't really detect movement. but now, there's a difference.... i'm getting pretty good nailing at highway speed whereas before i wasn't. car seems a bit less smoke-y.

-dan