Engine jammed?

[cocoboloart]

I don't know how bad my problem is. What happened: went to get a christmas tree last night (maybe 10 - 15 minutes of driving), loaded up the tree, pulled out, idling at red light for 2-3 seconds... engine stops, i try to start again...turns over really hard and not more than what seems like less than half way around and no more. We (my wife and I) pushed it to a nearby parking lot and I tried turning it over one more time but this time you could here the starter engage but you could tell it wasn't going to budge. (This is when I started to get a sinking feeling). Just to make sure I put a wrench on the crankshaft and it wouldn't move in either direction. Took the bus home.
I know some basic stuff but I've never taken an engine apart or had this problem before. I guess I am just trying to decide what my next move should be. I'm not afraid to tear into it (even on the street) I just don't know how to know how bad it is before I spend a ton of time when I should just have a different engine put in.
I have only owned this van 3 months. When I got it the injection pump leaked. I fixed that with a new bushing and replaced the water pump and timing belt then too. I just lined everything up with the timing belt and didn't do anything fancy with the gauge because it seemed to run fine. Since then everything has been running well enough. When it died it wasn't hot, low on oil or anything obvious that I can think of. I just don't have enough experience to know where to start. Any help will be greatly appreciated.

[libbybapa]

It's very hard to diagnose a situation like this long distance. Most likely the timing belt jumped time and your pistons hit the valves. If that is the case and it won't rotate either direction you have likely bent some valves or worse. A rebuilt head would likely be in order. Possibly you might get away with just replacing valves.

Another less likely possibility is that you spun a rod bearing. Replacing the crank might be necessary in that case.

The first step I would take is to remove the valve cover and look at the lifter buckets to see which are being pushed down by the cam. I would then remove the cam to see if they all popped back up. If they all pop up to the same height I would try to rotate the engine again by hand. If not, I would pull the head and see if it will rotate then.

Andrew

[cocoboloart]

Thanks so much for the advice. That gives me a good place to start which is exactly what I needed. If the timing belt jumped would I be able to tell. I looked at it and didn't see anything obvious. Before it happened and when it happened I was at a mormal idle and when the engine stopped it didn't seem violent at all. Just like maybe I tried to start out without giving it enough gas and stalled it. I don't, I guess I am hoping it is not too serious. If I need to... how hard is it to replace the head? Thanks again. I feel better already.

[libbybapa]

Replacing the head is a bit of work, but not too bad. You need to remove intake, exhaust, coolant hoses and timing belt. At that point the ten headbolts have it on the workbench. You would likely looking at $50 parts for the headbolts and gasket in addition to the other head. At idle you might not have bent valves, but possibly from the continued attempts at cranking it over. There are other possibilities as well, but that is the most likely. Something could have fallen into the timing hole in the bellhousing if it is not plugged and jammed the flywheel. The list goes on. You kinda need to get in there and do some things just to figure out what is stopping it.

Andrew

[Fatmobile]

I've heard of other people on here that broke a timing belt at idle and had no damage.... so maybe you got away with it this time.

If the timing belt jumped would I be able to tell. I looked at it and didn't see anything obvious.

Do more than look at the belt, grab it and see if it is broken or the teeth are stripped off.
Put a wrench on the cam bolt and try to turn that.

[cocoboloart]

I took andrews advice and removed the camshaft. All the valves popped up and one further than the rest. The crankshaft still wouldn't move so I took the head off just now (it took a little while... mostly the exhaust). I was going to post a couple pictures but I have to let my camera charge. What I found was one of the intake valves broken off and upside down jammed into the top of the first (facing the back of the van) cylinder. Now that the head is off the engine turns over again but I don't know what all I am going to need to do.
I would prefer to keep this repair as simple as possible but do what it takes to get up and running again. I'm doing this repair on the street as I don't have a garage. I can work on the cylinder head in my basement. Otherwise I would like to get running by tuesday. I don't know if this is possible. I think I can get all the parts I need it's just a matter of how big of a job this will be.
Do I have to replace the cylinder with the divot in the top? can I just replace the one intake valve that broke in half? What else should I do while I have everything this torn apart? I was planning on injectors, I just did the glow plugs.
I have a bad feeling that I may have caused this problem myself... I was having a problem with a little bit of oil coming out around the dipstick and found a post about drilling out the intake. I tried to be really careful and I used a good shop vac and heater hose to get good suction right where I was drilling but this was just a couple of weeks ago and I feel like it may have been my hampering that caused something to get in there and jam that valve up. Really sucks. I'd take my dripping dipstick back now. Or at least I would have been more cautious and taken the intake off to do the job. It did fix the drip.
In any case, advice on what my next move shoud be is much appreciated.

[libbybapa]

It would take a large chunk of metal to make a valve break off. I think you're off the hook as far as fault there. You need to look and see if the cylinder walls are gouged. If they are, then it's time to install that TD engine you always wanted. You might want to get another used head. If the piston top is chewed up, you might want to replace that as well or at least smooth down the surface some.

If your dipstick was leaking due to crankcase pressure, you likely need new rings or even a rebore of your engine and new pistons. Now might be a good time, but you won't have it done by Tues.

Andrew

[cocoboloart]

I've made progress with my problem but I've come across a bit of a confusing piece. I was thinking to replace just the broken valve as the cylinder wall are fine and I had pretty good compression. What I am confused about is the size of the valve. I put the pieces of the broken on together (perfect match and measured right around 95mm, but I see in the bentley 104.8. Also in the bentley I see the adjusting shim as being rather thin. Mine must be around 1cm thick which makes sense if the valve is shorter. I guess I am just wondering if this is normal for some of these heads or if having the shorter valve which puts more pressure on the springs may be why it broke in the first place. I was thinking about replacing all of the valves but now I don't know because if I get the normal diesel valves I will have to get new shims and I have no idea what shim sizes I would need. I don't really want to spend the 200 on the shim kit when a head wouldn't be that much more. I really just want to do a good enough job to last until I have time and money for the turbo diesel. Maybe this valve setup is common and I have nothing to worry about? should I replace all the valves while i am at it. I was also thinking to do the injectors now but thought about just replacing the nozzles since I have the time to take the old ones apart and clean them. Good idea or should I just get new ones? Thanks for the help so far.

[stopping]

hey there cocobolo,

Mon dude... I think you should look or at least just call around for the 1.9td(AAZ) or 1.6td. For the amount of nity-grity and not lacking in bravery should go for it now! The money... I know about the lack of money... the thing is the work your doing now could be going towards the engine you want. I know... it might be more practical for you to do only a valve job now.

What about the lack of garage though... you will need a garage for longer now if you do the conversion but the folks here can help for sure... I can help because I've been there. If I hadn't had a leaking cracked head I would not have done the AAZ conversion.... Monsieur, I am happy I did.

[libbybapa]

I've never seen or heard of lifter shims that were 1 cm thick. Are you sure your measuring just the shim? Removed from the bucket?

Andrew

[cocoboloart]

I didn't measure the lifter shims but I measured the broken valve and it's 9 or so mm shorter than the one in the bentley so I was confused about ordering new ones and the tension on the spring. The little notches on the side that they show being used to remove the shim are about a centimeter down the side so that's why I assumed the shims were that think.

I would like the turbo but I don't have much time and I need a new transmission with it so that's even more time and money. I just want to save it for the summer since I'm at the mercy of december chicago weather.

[libbybapa]

I do not know what to tell you regarding the valves. It is quite possible that someone fit non-standard valves. The keeper grooves have nothing to do with the lifter shim thickness. The lifters sit on top of the valves and the shims rest on top of the lifters and beneath the cam.

Andrew

[Fatmobile]

cocoboloar,
PM sent.

[cocoboloart]

Well... I think it's fixed. Probably not as well as it could have been but well enough hopefully to get me along till summer. I replaced the valve and patched up the piston. Put in new gaskets and seals and got the timing. I haven't started it yet because it's freezing cold and my battery needs charged... hopefully tomorrow morning.
I do have a couple of follow up questions though. When I had everything apart it seemed like the intake valves had been hitting the pistons for a while...is that possible? The guy at NAPA laughed at me but each piston had a definite impression of a valve in the top of it. I felt them with my finger. I don't know, I just don't want to have a repeat performance. I was super careful on the timing and turned it over by hand several times so I feel fairly confident.
Also... the reason my shims were different is because I have a hydraulic head. It took me a bit to figure it out but I did.
Thanks for the sage advice.

[libbybapa]

I frequently laugh at the numbnuts at NAPA and their blank stares of lack of understanding.

"I need a rear slave cylinder for a VW Vanagon"

"That's an Engine part, right?"

If the cam timing is not set correctly the pistons will hit the valves. If they were hitting the intakes, then the cam timing was overly advanced. Usually it's the exhaust ones that hit due to people having slack in the belt between the crank/pump/cam when it is tensioned or from the sprocket slipping on the cam due to oil residue or improper procedure for tightening the cam.

The hydraulic lifters don't use shims.

Andrew