Struggling: Ideas from the Gallary Please! 82 Caddy Diesel

[VanagonMark]

I've owned VW diesels since 1976. I long ago lost count of the numbers. Usually I can solve my own run ability problems. But my toy 82 Caddy non turbo truck is beginning to p me off.

I own 3 Vanagon diesels so one COULD draw a conclusion that given enough tinkering....I can figure things out. Not brain surgery at all....

I installed a new Bosch pump on this truck 2 years ago. But never got back to finishing off the project. Last week I got around to firing up the truck. The engine is a low mile maybe 25K rebuild I installed 10 years ago. Good tight block. When I build them I use chrome rings, stroker rods and they run very high compression with no issues. The old pump was tossed because of the lift was minimal. I found that it was leaking, and had a chance to buy several new Bosch pumps at the right price so I went for it.

RUNNING ROUGH! VERY ROUGH RUNNING! RICH RICH RICH. Smoke was pouring out of the exhaust like a Freight Train climbing a 6% grade!

The pump is a new one. With that electrical advance setup over the cabled pull start common on the older injection pumps. I have not hooked up any power to it. I did try and lean out the pump by backing out the 13mm adjustment then back in to the stop but found very little difference.

Idling and warming up, I cracked the nuts on the injectors. 2-4 caused a noticeable drop in engine speed, but #1 did not drop. Which leads me to thinking I have a bad or worn or plugged up injector. So they all are going to be replaced.

The engine was rough running and not driveable. I am guessing at this point that the injectors are tired and worn (250K plus)

I ordered and received new injectors last night. I also took 3 1.6 heads to my engine rebuilders requesting that they take the 3 and make me 1
good head.... I am going to swap the head off this truck simply because I broke the threaded mount for the alternator last year.

Why is this engine running so rich? I have the cam/crank right on the mark. I did order from VWDIESEL a new dial indicator for the pump. I will learn to use the dial and see what the pump is doing. The head is coming off just because I want to renew it.

The injection pump timing marks are slightly toward the head. The injector is leaned back all the way on the mount towards the grill.

In thinking about this for a day or two, I could have the pump one cog
advanced....and might try rotating the pump gear back one cog.

I am guessing, the new pump is over powering the tired injectors.
Or at least one injector. Pump timing might be off....(MIGHT)

Usually as in experience with the turtle vans, by advancing the pump while running you get a hard sharp knock from the firing inside. When I
advanced the new pump slightly the engine died.

Fuel in the tank is 18 months old. BUT my turtle vans also have
the same fuel. They might sit a year but fire up. Our temp is moderate and usually stale fuel is not an issue.

[libbybapa]

What color was the smoke? If it was black at idle I'd be looking for the rats nest in the air intake. If it was whitish I'd be setting the timing up correctly.

What are you talking about "stroker rods"? Higher than stock compression won't gain you anything.

We're talking diesels here, rich and lean don't apply.

250K miles on injectors is ASKING for DAMAGED pistons and cylinders. Absolutely idiotic to run old injector nozzles. Entirely false economy.

Some of the newer pumps do not have an electric advance. Instead it is an idle speed retard mechanism coupled to a coolant sensor to retard the idle timing when the engine is warm to reduce emissions. If there is not 12v to that type of solenoid then your dynamic timing advance will not work at all, ever.

The alternator does not bolt to the head nor does the alternator mount.

Sounds like you need to time the injection pump.

Andrew

[idhoho]

Andrew, I could be wrong- have been before, will be again... but, on a Rabbit, doesn't the upper bracket on an alternator of a 1.6L engine equipped with A/C attach to the head? Same bolt hole as the engine lifting tab?

By the way, descriptive terminology such as "idiotic" may be a bit harsh

[Vincent Waldon]

Yup, the injection pump "timing marks" are a rough guess at best... the only way to accurately ensure your timing is correct is to carefully follow the proceedure in the Bentley step by step... you must be at exactly TDC, you must lock the cam, you must loosen the cam sprocket, you must use the dial gauge... etc.

Diesels are a game of thousands of an inch when it comes to timing... get it on the money and your beast will run very well (assuming everything else is fine... and if you've got good compression, a rebuilt pump, and new injectors you probably are in good shape)... get it off just a bit and it will be a miserable experience.

Final thought... not sure what you mean by "stoker rods"... but if they are too long you'll make what little ignition space there is in a diesel too small.

Final final thought... was the engine preped before it sat for two years ? Perhaps you have rust/sticky rings / sticky valves ?

[libbybapa]

I've never had a rabbit with A/C so you might be right.

250,000 miles on injectors is beyond a bit harsh. Perhaps "very ignorant" would be a more polite term? Sorry if I'm offensive, but 60,000 miles on a set of nozzles is the outside of economy IMO. 250K is very ignorant. I've seen plenty of eroded piston crowns and worn out cylinders to know the damage that is caused by such behavior. Is running a timing belt for 200,000 miles very ignorant?

Andrew

[VanagonMark]

One thing I earned from being a business person for 40 years, and having teacher retirement coming in each month....

is AC on everything but the turtle vans.

250k is not out of line. I have a Vanagon D with well over that much with only one head gasket replaced years back. We toss the head bolts and use air craft quality replacements.

Once VWDIESEL gets me my dial indicator, my race car VW mechanic from down the way said he would demonstrate how to use it on an old pump. He can keep my Westmoreland running with the V-8's, surely he can show me how to use the dial indicator

we are now waiting for the shop to finish up a new head. Since I broke that upper mount the alt upper brace is missing. Just bugs me to see it broken I guess....

It's always been my experience with my many many VW diesels I owned over the years, that I can pretty much "feel' the timing of the pump once it starts to run. Once the motor settle in and warms up, I can tweak the
injector pump a bit. As long as the cam and crank are right on, its all down hill from there/

But in this case, the rich smoke pouring out of the exhaust has me
leaning towards at least one weak injector that the pump is over powering

oh well, I can always toss the motor and finally use that TD 1.6 that has been in that crate since 00. Just have to have a header pipe altered

Stroker Thing: 7 years ago while overseas with my GTI I happened upon a guy who had several sets of 1800 cc diesel piston sets. Along with cranks that are directly replacement to the OEM.

So I took em home. One set is in a turtle van, and yes, it kicks ass at bottom end up to 4000 and the other set has been in my Caddy. I towed 5600 lb trailer for 300 miles once with the turtle van. Albeit not like my Waterboxer Carat but it was a dare....

Works pretty good but you got to have a machine shop who knows what they are doing in regards to the projection of the piston on top of the block. Takes a 1.6 and makes them 1.8 with a longer stroke.

[VanagonMark]

Yup, the injection pump "timing marks" are a esel too small.

Final final thought... was the engine prepped before it sat for two years ? Perhaps you have rust/sticky rings / sticky valves ?

That one another idea tossed at me by my German rival in Oslo, he thinks I have some or one valve sticking,

so we are tossing the head.

[Vincent Waldon]

Yup... the ole "twist off the fuel line to the injectors one at a time" test only tells you when a cylinder may not be contributing... it doesn't tell you why !

[VanagonMark]

Yup... the ole "twist off the fuel line to the injectors one at a time" test only tells you when a cylinder may not be contributing... it doesn't tell you why !

I pulled the head this morning. It is being run out to the machine shop. I want them to pull it down and check to make sure everything ok, maybe they can fix that broken alt mount

meanwhile......ATT Pebble Beach National ProAm is on, gotta take the
cart down and check out the rich and famous...

Hope they don't block my driveway AGAIN. Last time I had ABC News van towed...

[hagar]

When Andrew in Flagstaff AZ uses words like ---eh I forgot --BUT to an Old flyboy like hagar --he fingerspitzen gefuehlen a FURBALL--- can hagar stay out ? -----I give you 3 guesses.?

IMHO installing longer rods ? will not increase cc of a 1.6 L VW diesel.----further it will fudle dodle it due to too much cylinder pressure.

So hagar joins the fight on Andrews side----and ---"Chuckles" --let the fight begin.---ALL in fun FUN get it ?.

hagar.

[VanagonMark]

IMHO installing longer rods ? will not increase cc of a 1.6 L VW diesel.----further it will fudle dodle it due to too much cylinder pressure.

hagar.

Really?
So that turtle Vanagon d with the bored and stroked out (a bit) doesn't add all that much. Guessin then that extra 600 cc we added just kind of sits back there....

How interesting. Funny how it outruns my 1.9 Waterboxer....and
pulls to Tahoe in the middle lanes loaded with kids, skis and widdle old me! And has been now since 2000 or 99 when they bored the block, threw in new rods and pistons....

Sure beats the hell out of the other two with the "normal" motor.
Maybe I ought to just toss it aside and say it won't work


Well, I guess I better get those normal 1.6 blocks ready and convert back! NOT

Blackberry posted

[hagar]

Not brain surgery at all.... ------- do not count that out ---EH ? .

To me it sounds like a stuck open pintle in a nozzle. ---- so I am with Andrew --60 000 Miles on a Bosch nozzle is about right.

Simple to detect---- Apple Pie.

hagar.

PS : a nozzle here is only 15 dollars Kanadian.

[idhoho]

Andrew and Svend~ I dare not argue with your correctness on the nozzles being shot with Sooooo many miles on them. I too have seen the pistons after being run with dribbley injectors!

No fight here. Just attitude seemed a bit testy! It seems that this fellow didn't notice anyway

Speaking of dribbley injectors;
You know why girls don't like basketball players? They always dribble before they shoot! Slam Dunk

[VanagonMark]

[quote="idhoho"]Andrew and Svend~ I dare not argue with your correctness on the nozzles being shot with Sooooo many miles on them. I too have seen the pistons after being run with dribbley injectors!

No fight here. Just attitude seemed a bit testy! It seems that this fellow didn't notice anyway

I spent too many years working in Jr High Schools. I know how to handle the little boys.....detention and walk the track for hours on end-----

if all else failed we called mom or the PO Officer

It's the big girls that always had me dribbley and befuddled

btw, I tink I had a stuck valve...and at least one bad injector.

Oh goodie, I see I made glow plug status now....this I gotta call and tell my ex wife about Since we still share interest in plugs

[hagar]

"Chuckles" and ALL ----yes Andrew in Flagstaff AZ and hagar in BC Kanada --makes for on hell of a team on 1.6L VW diesels ---in tennis double --or Bridge ---we would be hard to beat. IMHO.

. When I build them I use chrome rings, stroker rods and they run very high compression with no issues..---WOW --does he give lessons ?

Fighting ? no NO just sparring for FUN --as far as hagar is conserned. ----as you all know I took a ribbing in my day's --EH? BUT I learned.

He did us ALL a good turn --by making us THINK.---EH ? ----like STROKER RODS -EH ? in my mind they are shorter than normal rods -----the stroke on crank is increased .-----does wonders on a 1200cc Harley.

Now for POWER from a 1.6L VW diesel ? ----get a TURBO . ----Fraulein Bunny Bondo will put out 100 HP any day----- and smoke a lot -----so I TAMED her -----controlling the LDA manually.-------Smileage ? --EH ? --100 miles statute to a gallon of the Qeens Diesel gallon. --from a 1984 Old girl ? ---top that one.

As to compression ratio for a diesel ? ---IMHO 23 to 1 is too high.----I like about 17 to 1 ----a lot better.

hagar.

PS : happy hagar and his darling Bondo.