Some problems and questions, Long story grab coffee.

[A1-2-A3]

I got a 1.6 CR block N/A diesel in a 93 A-3. The engine is completely rebuilt. pistons, rings, rod bushings, oil pump, bored 0.020 over, line bored, new valve guides, seals, valves, valves set ok you get the point.....
The injectors I put in were leaking after replacing the nozzles so I took them out and lapped them(fixed the problem) Put it all back together and started. Found very smokey, like lots of fuel in the exhuast, you can taste it in the air and the people next door came running out to see if my garage was on fire. Anyways I paid no attention to them and I ran it long enough that it started to smooth out and stop missing, probably some air in the lines. Retorqued the head after warm, started again and the engine was warm and still lots of smoke. The engine don't sound as if the thing is too advanced, should I advance and try running again? The rings probably need to set in as well. I was used to the old 500,000kms 1.6 that is was b4 and expected to have it purring after dumping well over 2,500 dollars into the engine. The pump is a older pump but ran fine before the rebuild. The fuel is fresh sucking out of a 4L jug with the in/out line to it.
1. The GTD nozzles are probably dumping in lots of fuel??, How to adjust pump and should I adjust it to compensate. Or should I mess with the timing. No tools, involved here, dont want to wait to order them(also heard 1/2 the time its better without after all the pump is older and the method for timing seems full or flaws(too many variables for human error!))

2. The vac pump is moving back and forth when running, I got the hold down clamp tight and its a new oil pump, the pump sits about 1/8" over the shoulder of the block, do they sit flush, The torque spec is very low for the hold down bolt, the o-ring is lubed and the bolt torqued to spec, the oil pump that it drives is the one that required longer bolts the the old one, the oil pressure is +100 at idle cold(fine) What to do there? over time it will bugger the drive part from the vac pump to the oil pump.

3. To use a fuel tank from a A-3 gasser, Do I remove the relay for the fuel pump, and will it suck diesel through the pump, Or what do I do with that??, Already know about the fuel filler size and the vapor canister deal. Just need to know about delivery from the tank, the pump inside does have a screen but will it suck thu, don't want to use the pump inside the tank to pump the diesel to the injection pump.

4. I forget but do these/should these glow plugs still run for awhile the enigne is running.?elp it from missing/smoking maybe??

5. I got a gasser rad that the parts store guy insisted was the right one(I Phoned and made them check the numbers twice) paid over 250.00 for it. fabricated it on the car(made mounts) It is larger and eliminates the expansion tank. It seems like its working. Can here the rad cap hissing when the engine is running, no coolant comes out of the cap.
Never ran untill the T-stat opened becuase dont have a temp guage on it yet and fan not wired in. All lines but the lower rad hose was hot, when removing the cap after running there didnt seem to be excessive pressure. The top rad hose was very stiff when hot. Has anyone used or seen this setup? Works? Comments..


Thanks ahead for your time and all repling to this post.

Paul

Also I supported Jack on many of the rebuild parts: enigne kit, clutch kit, flywheel and so on. His motor kits are a good deal and good quality.
I have asked him many questions, I learnt lots from your topics and decided today to register as a member after tooling with these Vws for a couple of years and having 12 years experience on Volvo trucks as a master tech.

[A1-2-A3]

Ok, i got it running good now after doing some timing adjustments. There is a bit of air coming back in the return side and now injectors 1-2 are fine but 3-4 are leaking again!! I guess I should take them out and lap them again and again, I bought 25 dollars worth of injector seals so here goes more trail and error. Thats all the good news! The bad news is looks like the head gasket is leaking on the front side slightly when hot I can see some antifreeze on the front of it. Will these injectors stop leaking if I run it enough? Will the head gasket stop leaking ever? It was a 65 dollar victor reinz gasket. I followed all procedures. These things must just leak all the time or what?? What should I do differently next time I install the head(cross fingers), should I get a fire extinguisher and a diaper for this damn thing?! I will have to get a coolant temp gauge on it it was getting pretty hot and the t-stat still did not open yet(who knows how hot) In the rad I could not see coolant cyling through, although the heater hoses and everything was hot, and the top half of the rad was hot, and the water pump is new and it does work. I don't think there could be air in the pump if the line to the head and to the heater cores are boh hot could there be? Anyways, getting very frustrated again and can only work on this car about 2 hours a day because of all the problems and when I think one is fixed two or three more come up to bite me in the ass!

[A1-2-A3]

ALSO! The diesel is coming up from the bottom half and the middle parts of the injectors, there is new heat shields and the crud was cleaned from below the injectors, is seems under the heat shields in the head the bottom section there is no material for the head shield to sit on, I paid 450 bucks to get the head redone( leaks coolant now anyways)(where is my gun!), the injectors never leaked untill I changed to the GTD nozzles, and I have had them out at least three or four times cleaning the injectors and never had trouble with the old nozzles . Should I sell the brand new GTD nozzles on ebay and put the old ones back in and see if that helps. Damn these VW'S TO I thought I would do something for the good of the engine by replacing the nozzles, starting to look like it was a very bad idea, maybe I should take the injectors to a shop and pay big bucks to get them redone, and then see how much they leak when I install them in the head?

[Quantum-man]

You seem to be having some bad luck. You should meet Shalyn

Are you hinting that the machinist may have machined out the seating along with the crud? Remove an offending injector and retrieve the heatshield. If your suspicions are correct then the heatshield will not be as deformed as others that have previously worked. I forget the dimension changes but no problem as a comparison should suffice. Not sure about head leak. If the cylinder gases are not leaking into the coolant then things may settle. Try running temporariy without a thermostat. It could be the wrong one or a faulty one. Whilst out boil the thermostat in a saucepan of water. Heck find a baked bean tin and boil it in cannola to get above 100deg C If your coolant cap is faulty this can alter running temperatures try swapping it...
Good luck

[A1-2-A3]

The coolant cap leaks air all the time when it is running I can hear it.
The Vac pump I got figured and its tight. They didnt touch inside the injector holes I had to pull the heat shields out when I go it back.
Hmm, the waterpump was just replaced about 3 months b4 tearing the engine down and I removed it as a assmbley and left the new t-stat in that was working fine on the motor b4 rebuild. Probably still is fine just need to heat it up, Thanks for the reply. I need some encouragement, I think more than anything. I will do anything once even twice but when I have to do it the thrid fourth and tenth time it gets much. On these old things seems thats the way it goes. Well with my luck anyways!

[Vincent Waldon]

Always painful when multiple things are going wrong at the same time... like any good doctor our best bet is to treat the symptoms one at a time.

My random thoughts for what they're worth:

1) your leaky injectors... the pros will tell you you need a expensive diamond lapping tool to attempt what you are doing and that it is impossible by hand... so the fact that you got 3 of the 4 working is pretty darn good. As far as I know it's just a matter of practice, a steady hand, and fine sandpaper... what grit are you using ?? Are you torquing the hell out of the halves when you put 'em back together ?

2) your cooling system... perchance did you test the t-stat before installation ?? They love to be busted straight from the factory or die unannounced... the Bentley shows you how to cook 'em on a stove and they ain't kidding.

3) your timing... yes the popular wisdom is that you can't do it accurately if the pump is worn. My belief is that it makes sense to start at exactly the official specs with the dial gauge etc and then adjust to taste... since we're
dealing with precise measurements here I believe it's helpful to have at least a starting frame of reference.

4) your vac pump should not be dancng the hula and should sit flush... pull it and roll the shaft on a flat surface... my guess is that you've got a warp... saw it once before (no idea *how* they warp). Oil all over the block...

5) Hissing rad cap could tie in with your slight coolant leak at the head gasket... don't mean to give you the 5th degree, but did you:
- clean both head and deck as smooth as a baby's bottom
- use brand new head bolts
- use short studs or wooden dowels to ensure the gasket doesn't shift as you place the head down on the deck (if you had Jack's parts he probably gave you the short studs ?)
- torque to spec, run for 100 miles (or whatever the Bentley says... working on a gasser at the moment and purged that number from my brain) then re-torque
- any chance the head was slightly warped to begin with (doesn't take much... 4 thou is all that is allowed)

6) Yep the glow plugs run on slightly after the LED goes out... different versions of the system do it for different times, but they pretty much all do it

7) I've never seen a diesel setup without an expansion tank... can't comment other than I don't believe it's how the gods at VW intended... may or may not be an issue however. Me ?? My baby makes lots of heat under full boost and I need every ounce of coolant and every cc of expansion room for that coolant to grow into.

Keep at it... you'll trounce the demons one-by-one !! Sounds like you did a very high quality rebuild so it's worth going the extra mile before calling the towtruck.


Vince

[A1-2-A3]

Well its in a project car so I will go at it till its done no matter. I got enough money into it I could have bought a TDI donor car and swapped the whole front clip dash and everything and been way further ahead in the end then 52hp. But way way too late to turn back.
Comments to your questions and answers

1) two injectors leaking, torqued the halves to 51ft-lbs and also 51 to the head, its leaking between the halves and also at the head, I used 600 and then 800 sand paper seemed they shined. Possibly it should be better then that? By looking at it I can not understand how more sanding will help with a finer grade. Should I put thread sealant on all the treads any suggestions there?
\
2) cooling system I will run it and check with a infared heat gun and make sure it opens when it hits the temp( I hate pulling the damn t-stat too messy coolant goes down the engine and everywhere)

3) Well Timing is check as of now seems not to cloud the whole damn yard and dont miss, will run better once the injectors on cylinder 3 and 4 are not bubbling diesel and air.

4) Vac pump I took out and reinstalled with the correct bolt it was too short and it was just loose so that is ok(thank god one thing works)

5) The rad cap may not be compatible or be no good or maybe it just does that. The head and block both smooth as glass, put head on with dowels and torqued down in steps, ran up to temp and then retorqued far as it got never left the garage with this yet for the 800-1000mile retorque.
This thing has the 11mm bolts and they were replaced not much threads into the block easy to see why they made this better with the 12mm.

6) I will wire in the glow plugs after I get all the injectors and head gasket, cooling system figured out.

7) I hope this set up will work I dont really see why not, it is now a larger cooling system, the only downfall is that the increased risk on this rad for a air lock(which it may have)

I will never give up, I just wish things would go right!!

With gasoline at 4.85 cents a gallon it would be nice to have this thing going. I miss operating on $1.02 average per day. I used to fill every month and a half with the rabbit driving to work everyday and daliy errands. My 1/2 ton costs 20-30 bucks a week

Thanks for the advice and help.

Paul

[libbybapa]

You seem to be having some bad luck. You should meet Shalyn.

LOL!

Try running temporariy without a thermostat.

I would be really hesitant to recommend that. The system is a bypass style and so when the thermostat opens it closes the bypass hose. Without the thermostat in place the bypass hose will be full open as will the lower rad hose. With the bypass hose unblocked, the engine would eventually overheat. If you do run that way, don't do it for long.

The injectors often need more than 52 ft lbs to seal well. I usually use 60 ft lbs on the two halves. 52 when bolting them into the head. FYI, it is highly unlikely that they are leaking from the bottom. What you are seeing is diesel fuel which has leaked down into the threads in the head and is consequently boiling out of the threads.

Try burning sage around the car.

So the two headgasket mating surfaces were smooth, but were they flat?

I haven't seen any cooling system caps that constantly leaked air when functioning properly.

The headgasket might seal after retorqueing the head properly. I personally find these engines to be quite easy to keep from leaking anything, especially compared to the older air-cooled or the water-boxer vanagon engines.

Andrew

[Quantum-man]

Rad caps... Not trying to teach anyone to suck eggs just trying to pinpoint faults...Some of the early rad caps had only one valve that would release when up to pressure say 14psi. Look at most caps though and you will see two valves one operates as above and the second one operates in reverse and actually lets air in when the system develops a slight vaccuum when cold after having lost a little coolant for whatever reason and prevents hose collapse.

The important bit is that crud gets underneath the valve seats occasionally and so prevents proper sealing. Pulling the rubber seal with a knitting needle allows the valve plate to come out. Rinse with soapy water and reassemble. This may be the source of the hissing and could be why the thermostat is not operating correctly.

[Quantum-man]

Try running temporariy without a thermostat.

I would be really hesitant to recommend that. The system is a bypass style and so when the thermostat opens it closes the bypass hose. Without the thermostat in place the bypass hose will be full open as will the lower rad hose. With the bypass hose unblocked, the engine would eventually overheat. If you do run that way, don't do it for long.


Andrew

Yea ignore me when I'm talkin' rubbish
Transverse coolant experience minimal... I forget I'm only one of two people left in the world with Quantae They'll run water or coolant: stat or no stat... but they do like a good rad cap

[A1-2-A3]

Well thanks guys alot for the repiles. I will remove the last two injectors(that are leaking) I still have 5 seals left to work on them so 2 chances each. I hope like hell they were not leaking fuel at the head. Anyways. i will take the cap apart and see if I can get it to seal proper. If not I will buy a new cap. Then run it up with a remote guage to moniter temp. There still is one torque left to do on the head at the 1000mile time, maybe it will be fine then(if it makes it that far ) Why is that funny its not!. It was not leaking much coolant externally just enough to be able to see it around the head maybe two or three drops of green to turn my face green in disgust. The surfaces should have been totally fine. The machine shop measured them and they were all in specs. They rebuild all engines from a 3 cylinder sprint to a 6 cylinder diesel semi engine. There was a head specalist doing the head and a engine boring rebuild guy doing the engine. All I wanted was the block bored and I would do the rest but they said nope, we have to install the new pistion pin bushings in beacuase blah blah line bored and so on, plus they abunch of other machine shop jargon that I said yeah ok do it. I assembled the oil pump, head, accesories, seals and that kinda stuff. Could they have not really measured the block and the head right and it was not in spec of course, I never measured it myself so I don't really know for sure. I have all the tools for that at work. If I would have put the pistions in and everything I would have saved ike 150 bucks and then it would have been a hassle so have at it boys. I rebuild engines and repair engines and whatever other things on Volvo semis all day at work so it was nice to have someone do most the engine work without me lifting a finger. I am not a machinist so I left it to them. ANYWHO!! Blah blah I go. Thanks for the replies once again. So torque the two halves to 60ft-lbs, thinnk it will make a difference? It seems pretty solid at 51 and hard to say if this will help. But its all worth a try. Crap I thought the pistions were hitting the valves when I first started the damn thing my brother 17 years old put the downpipe on with two nuts temporarly I said thighten them, it came loose and was banging. I almost crapped my pants when I heard that sound of the flanges slapping against each other. I had one of those cam oil baffles in for the first time and it sounded like that was scraping have a gasser valve cover and it works fine and it dont leak like the old 79 diesel one did. One heck of a battle this thing is turning out to be reminds me of putting a water pump on a 3406 Cat and ready to run at the end of the day and the customer is waiting and pour coolant in and find that I folded a o-ring and the coolant comes out as fast as it goes in. Kinda a sick to the stomach feeling.

Paul

[A1-2-A3]

Anyways anyone know anything about the fuel tanks? Leave pump in and remove relay and inline fuel filter, add a filter on the shock tower in the engine bay, flush tank and lines with air/diesel and go? Or will the feul not pull through the electric pump in the tank and some other fun stuff I have to do to make this work with the gasoline tank? I know the filler and the canister? No one answered this yet so thought I would ask again. swapping a diesel tank not a option, the sendor should work, no reason it wouldn't. Thanks in advance.

[Fatmobile]

I'd use the in-tank pump and get rid of the external pump.
Use a fuel pressure gauge to make sure it doesn't supply too much pressure at idle... but provides enough under high loads.
A dash mounted boost gauge would look nice and work well, since some read both positive and negative.