Bad News? Changed Injectors

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chalupien
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Bad News? Changed Injectors

Post by chalupien »

So, I had a spare engine that failed due to dropping a valve, I took off the injectors it had and replaced them on my engine that runs, but smokes and does not have much power. I have new ones coming in the mail soon. So I put these old ones on and after getting it to start it makes a really loud knocking/ticking noise, which gets louder with RPM. ???? What has happened. I have not tried putting the old ones back on....

I suspect that maybe I put better injectors on and the engine is now needing a timing adjustment (as well as a new belt, which are also in the mail)

Any ideas???
Vincent Waldon
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Post by Vincent Waldon »

Couple of things to check:

- did you use new heat shields when you swapped the injectors ?? They deform as you tighten down the injector and are single-use only.

- are they appropriate for your engine ie: 130bar injectors for a non-turbo engine and 155 bar injectors for a turbo engine ??
Vince

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A1-2-A3
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Post by A1-2-A3 »

These injectors you took from your bad engine and installed them on your running engine. How long were they sitting and any contamination in them? Maybe these other injectors are no better than the ones you had, or possibly you got other problems like the pump is sucking air or your fuel filter is plugged.
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chalupien
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Post by chalupien »

The old injectors came off a same non-turbo, same 130 bar... they were old and i cleaned them with brake cleaner.

I had to use the same heat shields because I dont know where to find them...

Also I dont know how much to torque them down to... I have the 1.5 diesel 1980 non-turbo.

The engine ran sloppy before the injector change, lots of white smoke that smelled like fuel, it had a very uneven idle... No power and ran very hot (or atleast what the temp gauge showed me)

So I figue what could it hurt if these old injectors could tell me a little more about the issues.

Like I mentioned earlier, now the engine has a very loud knocking noise. ...

Could I have torqued the injectors down too much?? and they could be causing damage? (I wouldnt think so...)
Vincent Waldon
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Post by Vincent Waldon »

chalupien wrote:The old injectors came off a same non-turbo, same 130 bar... they were old and i cleaned them with brake cleaner.
In my experience it doesn't take much for a nozzle to jam, spray funny, etc... and this will cause strange noise(s) and, worst-case, engine damage as the malformed spray pattern blowtorches a hole in your glowplugs and/or pistons.

Perhaps your best bet is to get your new nozzles and start over.


chalupien wrote: I had to use the same heat shields because I dont know where to find them...
Dealers (VW, Mercedes) carry them, as will Bosch shops and all of the on-line Worldpac dealers. They really really really need to be replaced each time... otherwise you get compression leaks that cause all kinds of issues... strange noises, smoke, lack of power, etc etc etc.

The injectors get torqued down to 70 Nm (51 ft lbs)... with NEW heat shields !! :wink:
Vince

Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
2001 silver TDI Jetta Malone Stage 1.5 , 2001 blue TDI Jetta SBIII 216s Malone Stage 3
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Gone but not forgotten: 1969/1971 Beetles, 1969/1974 Westies, 1979 Rabbit, 1986 TD Jetta, 1992 gas Jetta, 1994 TD Jetta

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libbybapa
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Post by libbybapa »

Vincent Waldon wrote: otherwise you get compression leaks that cause all kinds of issues... strange noises, smoke, lack of power, etc etc etc.
One of the most irritating etc's to re-using heat shields is that if they leak they run carbon gunk up the injector nozzle and the thread in the head often assisting in cracking the head when the injector is finally removed. Before trying old, crusty injectors in an engine, I would at minimum have them pop tested, and most likely wouldn't even waste my time with that. I'd just pick something else up from the back burner and face the injectors when the good parts arrived. As Vince mentioned a bad injector can do a tremendous amount of damage. It is very likely that the knocking noise is coming from one that is stuck open and so spraying fuel into the cylinder waaay too early. Not really a good thing.

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Post by A1-2-A3 »

You may have your engine too far advanced as well, due to the knocking and white smoke you talk of. Do further diagnostics once you got new injectors and heat shields installed.
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chalupien
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Post by chalupien »

Brand New 1.6L NA 130bar injectors with new Heat Shields were put on last night....

Bled them and... big problem... fuel is spraying out onto the ground in front of the car from the very top of the injection line...

I took off the line and saw that the end of the compression fitting had a shard of steel around the lip... and on one part there was a piece of metal as thin as a needle not allowing the injector and the line to make a perfect seal.

So now I have the 3rd cylinder shooting fuel through the top of the injection line and the car won't start....

But I think (not 100% sure) that the tapping noise may be gone??

Any ideas what to do?
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Post by jkeiffer_gearhead »

sounds like you overtightend the injector line and you will need a new one or used replacement.

get the replacement before you try to run anymore
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Post by chalupien »

I know the 2000psi needs to be reinforced (reason there are steel lines) but is there any compound that I can use to seal the problem...
Vincent Waldon
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Post by Vincent Waldon »

Nope.... it's 2000+ psi on a special flare fitting.

If you are careful you might be able to use some very fine sandpaper to remove whatever sliver is getting in your way ? Otherwise replacement is the next step.
Vince

Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
2001 silver TDI Jetta Malone Stage 1.5 , 2001 blue TDI Jetta SBIII 216s Malone Stage 3
1970 Bay Window bus

Gone but not forgotten: 1969/1971 Beetles, 1969/1974 Westies, 1979 Rabbit, 1986 TD Jetta, 1992 gas Jetta, 1994 TD Jetta

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82vdub
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Post by 82vdub »

Vincent Waldon wrote:If you are careful you might be able to use some very fine sandpaper to remove whatever sliver is getting in your way ? Otherwise replacement is the next step.
X2. The proper way to tighten the lines is to loosly install the lines on both the injectors and flanges on the IP. Then, loosen the injector line holding clamps, then align and press the injector line to the injector, tighten the nut then do the same wtih the fitting on the IP. When all lines are tight, tighten down the line holding clamps. This way you are not making the line nut pull the line down to the flange to seal. I just snug the lines, start the car, then slightly tighten until there are no leaks. If you overtighten, you will crack the line rendering it useless (except on your homemade bottle jack pop tester).
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chalupien
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Post by chalupien »

Alright... good news... but not the best.... :?

So I filed down the edge on the fuel line fitting and I got it to not leak... But I need NEW 1/8" fuel line to seal off the lines connecting each injector for the overflow, because they are leaking a little.

But the next issue (which I knew when I purchased this baby) is the IP!!! :lol:

The engine will not idle, but will run with tons of white smoke out of the exhaust...

So...

In the trunk came an extra goodie ... Another Bosch IP model 107A (0460 494 005)

But the IP on the engine now is currently a 109D (0460 494 118)

Is this something I can just switch...???

Because I have a new timing belt I need to put on and I might as well switch the pumps and see if anything improves... (that's my idea anyway)
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Post by 82vdub »

Yes, you can switch out the pumps no problem.
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chalupien
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Post by chalupien »

Whats the difference between the 109D and the 107A ...

Any advantages or disadvantages?

I have read of the 107A more in this forum ... In fact if you search 109D it is not mentioned in this forum...
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