"rebuilt" pump from Prothe

[Blove]

I bought a rebuilt pump from prothe and now owe a local shop $300 for install only to tell me the pump is no good.

I've tried to contact Prothe a few times with no luck.

It looks like i'm out 700 bucks!

I was advised to contact this forum for advice.

has anyone had luck getting a refund from Prothe?

[82vdub]

Welcome to the forum. I've never dealt with this person, but if you do a search for "prothe" on this forum, you will typically find that the general consensus is buyer beware when dealing with prothe.

Depending on the timeframe you're talking about and if you used a credit card or paypal, you may have repercussions. If you used one (or both) of these methods, try to see if you have any recourse through the payment method of cancelling the payment to prothe.

[Vincent Waldon]

I was advised to contact this forum for advice.

Yeah, unfortunately the advice you might have gotten was "don't do it!".

However, here we are... has your mechanic been able to tell you exactly what's wrong with your pump? Perhaps we can help you there.

[VW Jon]

I can remove/install and time a pump on a non-a/c Rabbit in two and a half hours. I don't know how they could charge $300, unless it had a/c, but even then I don't think it would take much longer.

[Blove]

wish i would have searched prothe on the forums before i bought...guess the old saying is true that sometimes things that sound too good to be true are.

VW Jon, do you want to come out to portland to do some work?

I did use paypal/cc and am going to give prothe one more day to respond before i start taking action...i was hoping it wouldn't come to that.

My mechanic says that the engine has a loud clattering throughout the rpm range (didn't with my old pump...it just leaked) he says it sounds like there is air in the line.

I appreciate the welcome, I don't join many of these forums, but I definitely need all the help i can get on this project!

[libbybapa]

Clattering as in diesel sound or as in pistons hitting valves? Did he do the crank to valve timing correctly? If it's diesel clatter, then there is a good chance that either the dynamic advance is incorrectly shimmed or the internal pressure is too high.

Andrew

[82vdub]

Clattering as in diesel sound or as in pistons hitting valves? Did he do the crank to valve timing correctly? If it's diesel clatter, then there is a good chance that either the dynamic advance is incorrectly shimmed or the internal pressure is too high.

Or, the pump is incorrectly timed (ie: advanced) and needs to be retarded a bit. If you have clear fuel lines going to and from the pump, this will tell you if there's air in the system.

What did your mechanic do for $300 and why? Was this just an install cost and because of the noise, the mechanic is saying the pump rebuild was bad (not saying it is or isn't either)?

[VW Jon]

VW Jon, do you want to come out to portland to do some work?

If you were nearby, I would be willing to help. At least next time you can ask in the forums how long a job will take. That way you know if the shop is being realistic. Not too many people in regular shops know these old machines.

[Swampy]

Sorry to hear about your injection pump. If you send it back make sure to get a "signed delivery confirmation". This guy knows all the tricks and without it he can keep your money and your pump. I battled for over 3 mos.

[tawney]

You're confident that your mechanic knows his VW diesels well enough? When he says 'it sounds like there is air in the line' I'm a bit skeptical. Read Libbybapa's post again, and 82Vdub's afterwards. Assuming the clattering is not valve and piston contact, the noise is probably from too advanced timing. Could be a bad pump; could be a bad installation, but it's not from air in the lines.

Steve

[libbybapa]

I would add that air in the lines will not cause it to be clattery. It will cause it to smoke, lack power and miss, but clatter it won't. That comment also made me skeptical of the individual doing the work.

[coke]

While I've never dealt with prothe personally, I've heard / read a bunch of people's posts that have and had horrible experiences with his product and post-sale support. The person who installed your pump, as Libbybapa pointed out, noted air in the lines causing clattery noises, sounds like he doesn't quite understand what he's talking about.

When you have mid range marbles, lots of things come into play. Static timing, dynamic timing, injectors, etc. My car's injectors are horrible and its very clattery, but I have the timing jacked up some. (Complicated story)

If you still have the pump on your car, I would read the posts about setting timing and make doubly sure that your TDC mark on your flywheel is lined up, and your cam timing is set properly, and your injection pump sprocket mark is lined up properly. If they are, then you would try messing with the static timing and see what results you have. Based on your posts, I would say retarding the timing some may or may not alleviate your issues.

[hagar]

Blove and ALL : I goggled Prothe , yeiks $ 700.00 . (remember don't cry over spilt milk ?)

Someone suggested you enter this forum EH ? great advice. . Read coke,Vincent and the others 3 or 4 times..

If it sounds too good ? it was. BUT let this forum save you some future money. 82 caddy is a very desireable set of wheels. . SO ? give us more to chew on , like Pump numbers engine numbers and history , you got it EH ? . If this forum can't handle it . we know a forum that can.. I am reminiscing abbot my visits to Oregon State , good place for a VW Kubelwagen 4X4 . and a Rabbit will give a good account of itself too .

Brand New I P's are commonly for sale for $ 300..00. Remember the same BOSCH I P . is used on many other than VW engines., I asked Capilano VW , how much for a new pump Answer : $ 5000.00.
A forum member got me going for FREE .

Will 1.5 liter pump work ok on 1.6 liter engine ? Thanks
20 minutes later Gary Bangs in Florida Emailed me and 30 minute after that she was running like a charm.

She ? yes my 1982 1.6 L Rabbit. (I had lots of 1.5 L pumps on the shelf.) that was Sun Dec 29 06:59:49 EST 2002 , and she is still running with a yellow dot pump.

SO ? do not give up.

hagar.

[82vdub]

Depending on your access to the car, I would try to put a wrench on the crankshaft bolt and turn it by hand and see how it feels. There will be natural harder to turn spots as the compression builds, but I would try this to see if you can feel any definate hard spots as if the valves were hitting ths pistons. If they touch lightly, you may never feel anything, but if it's a hard hit, you would definately feel a "bump". If you can get anyone to go over to the car and listen to it to help with diagnosis, that would definately help a lot.

As for pump timing, if you have any mechanical aptitude at all and a couple tools, you can adjust the timing slightly to see what happens without effecting much else. If you just rotate the injector pump (IP), it does not effect the cam to crank timing (ie: valves hitting pistons). If you want to learn how to work on your car, get a Bentley manual and some tools and start learning. The car runs, so the IP may be fine, but need a little tweaking, or it may be a poor rebuild. At this point, I'm not convinced that it's a shot pump until I'd find out more information.

[Blove]

first off, i appreciate all the replies.
another part of the story, the mechanic who is currently working on it says that my flywheel mark is not at TDC. He manually found tdc and scratched a pulley and the block to mark it. I don't know...i guess i need to pull my transmission and get the flywheel lined up...I have some mechanical ability, but i don't have the tools for timing, that was one reason i had the shop do it.
I also just don't really have the wrenching time as my wife really wants our house remodeled....I just need this thing to run and work so i can use it to haul sht for a while...then i'll upgrade and restore along the way...that was the plan anyhow.

the mechanic is a good guy and works on plenty of old german cars, but not that many old diesels...I don't have a problem paying somebody to do some work, i just need my truck to work! I've had it for two years and still don't have a plate for it!

BTW 82VW, my truck is from a barn in appleton...


so, I only live a half mile from the shop....do i drive it home?

here is my list of what has been done to the truck so far
brakes...hard and soft lines, wheel cyl's calipers...rust removal...etc.
starter
battery
clutch (friend did it, apparently fkd up the flywheel alignment)
transmission mount
windshield
exhaust new from manifold back
tires
wiring (had all kinds of funky farmer wiring...diesel pump was hooked to a toggle switch)
getting all the brake and turn signals to work
timing belt and cam seal (shop doing when installing pump)
injectors and glow plugs were supposedly done just before i bought it.
hand brake cables

thats about it...it hasn't been on the road since 1996.