How much cranking before it starts?

[TonyB]

I'm in the process of rehabing an 81 Dasher 1.6na. When I got it, it would not start. I've fixed that, but have a question. When starting the engine, how long does it crank before it fires? Mine takes about 5 seconds. Wonder if that is about normal?? Thanks.

Tony B
Jacksonville, FL
81 Dasher 1.6na

[tylernt]

There are three primary concerns for winter starting, and those are compression, cranking speed, and glow plugs.

If you have access to a diesel compression tester that will really help you diagnose what condition your engine is in. If you don't and don't want to spring for one, then you can play the guess-and-check game replacing things until the problem is solved. I would start with replacing or at least testing the glow plugs since they are by far the most common problem.

Here are the things that can affect the cranking speed part of the equation:

* battery cables (both + and ground)
* battery
* starter

Within the last couple years I have replaced the battery, cables, and starter and now my Rabbit will start with maybe 2.5 seconds of cranking in winter. (In summer it's less than 1 second.) It's a little rough though, running on less than four cylinders after starting, so I know I have one or more glow plugs that need replaced.

EDIT: I just noticed you're in Florida for heck's sake so you shouldn't have to crank for more than 1 second or so for it to pop right off, even if you happen to have low compression on a worn engine. It sounds like maybe your problem is more in the glow plugs and cranking speed department.

[tawney]

If you don't have clear lines going to the pump, replace with clear. If you're getting air bubbles in the pump, it will delay the starting. Do that, and the aforementioned glow plug test. If that doesn't do it, let us know.

Steve

[goldlion]

I just finally got my engine starting strong and without multiple seconds of cranking...I replaced all 4 GPs and relay, and it was still only really starting after multiple GP cycles and the cold start lever pulled all the way out.

Just learned that the cold start lever adjusts the injection pump timer, so mechanic and I checked the timing and it was way off. Adjusted it, and it fires up instantly now. So I'd say if the cold start lever really affects the starting, definitely check the timing!

HTH!

[TonyB]

Thank you for the suggestions. My fuel line is full - no bubbles. I have ordered new (Bosch) glow plugs and will check the timing. My glowplug relay was DOA, so I have wired up a glowplug solenoid & manual switch per the guidance here, and that's working fine. I have marbles with the cold start lever pulled, and when I push it in the marbles almost go away, so from my reading here, I am guessing the timing is pretty close. Also scoffed a compression guage this week from Harbor Freight with a 20% off coupon. Compression check is next.

Thanks again for the help. I really appreciate all the information that can be found here. With a Bentley and this forum, it will be difficult to get too far off track.

TonyB
Jacksonville
81 Dasher 1.6na

[MPalm]

My friends car takes about 3-5sec of cranking before it starts. No air, timing is spot on, injectors are rebuilt and compression is fairly good.
I'm starting to think that it just takes a while for the IP to build up pressure...

[libbybapa]

It shouldn't take more than 2 revolutions of the crankshaft to start down to 15° F. If it takes longer then you have issues that need to be addressed.

[TonyB]

I seem to be making progress on my Dasher engine. Pulled the injectors to do a compresseion test. One of the injectors was not torqued down - about 1/4 turn loose. This injector and one other one had been seeping between the injector and the head. Could this have been contributing to my 5 seconds+ of cranking?
The really good news - compressions are 490, 490,475, 490. All the glow plugs are working, but they look original. I am going to replace the glow plugs since I have the injectors out. Speedo shows 112,000 but who knows. Would it be a good idea to disassemble the injectors while they are out & inspect for wear. Perhaps I should just go ahead and get new nozzles & install them. What do you folks think? Seems to me like good insurance.
This forum is a goldmine of information. Had I not read the old posts, I would have made some potentiallly costly errors. Thanks again.

TonyB
Jacksonville,FL
81 Dasher 1.6na

[tawney]

I wouldn't open the injectors just to look at them; you won't be able to see anything anyway. New nozzles every 60K miles is generally a good idea; but don't buy cheap ones.

Starting: glow plugs, timing, fuel, starting rpm, compression. That's all there is; seems like you've commented on all but starting rpm. Does it turn over slowly?

[MPalm]

[quote="tawney"]I wouldn't open the injectors just to look at them; you won't be able to see anything anyway. New nozzles every 60K miles is generally a good idea; but don't buy cheap ones.

Starting: glow plugs, timing, fuel, starting rpm, compression. That's all there is; seems like you've commented on all but starting rpm. Does it turn over slowly?[/quote]

If this was adressed to my post then no, it doesn't turn over slowly. Glow plugs were replaced about a year ago and they all checked out ok a week ago.
There's isn't much more left but the IP itself.

He was about to put in a lift pump to help getting the fuel flowing, don't know how that turned out.

[TonyB]

Does it turn over slowly?[/quote]

Cranking speed is excellent ! I finished removing the injectors & glowplugs today. (yes, I put aluminium foil over the pump outlets). Plan to run individual wires to the glowplugs as suggested elsewhere on the forum.

TonyB
Jacksonville, FL
81 Dasher 1.6na