Hard to start Vanagon 1.9 NA diesel

[astroboy]

HISTORY:

I bought the van new in Feb 1983. It came with the 1.6 NA Diesel, which always started instantly for years. Then the California additive to the Diesel fuel made my valve stems smaller in diameter and one valve head broke off and got rammed into the head! I had it rebuilt, but after a year it started using 3 quarts of oil between fill-ups. A cop finally pulled me over and gave me a fix it ticket.

I found out that it was just a few hundred dollars more to put in a 1.9 NA Diesel from (competitor's name removed by moderator), so that is what is in it now. That is the engine it should have had back in 1983. I couldn't beat a garbage truck off the line before, but now I can!

It had been running just fine until I took my wife shopping (she caused it!), then the next day it would not start at all. It was getting harder to start and putting out some blue smoke, but still no problem until that day. Thinking the pump had died, I sent the pump to Pete back at
http://www.volkswaparts.com/ and he rebuilt it for a reasonable price.

After I got the pump back, I installed it and timed it with some great help from Vince Waldon (Thanks!). I finally had it all back together and it would not start!!. I then found this site and others that pointed me to the glow plugs. They were all dead. It must have been starting on one glow plug prior to its demise (because of the smoke). I ordered some new glow plugs and relay and installed them, and it ran. I had a lot of adjusting to do since the pump was set way way too rich (had a lot of power however, but way too much smoke for California). After a lot of tweaking, it has been running just fine but with a lot of loud marbles when it first starts and still somewhat noisy when it runs. Timing is set at 0.035 inch (0.89 mm).

CURRENT:

Back about a month ago, it would not just start right up. But after trying a bunch of times (at least 10 glow plug cycles and starting) it would finally start. Today I looked at the relay plug and made measurements.

Two of the glow plugs read 0.8 ohms so they are OK, and it was 57 Degrees F, a bit cold for California, but I will still need at least 10 cycles to get going. At the first glow plug (start of copper bar) the voltage read 9.6V when glow plugs are first turned on gradually upwards to 10.25 volts just before it went to 0 volts. The battery reads 12.6 volts not under load.

The new glow plugs and relay are the 7 second variety since they don't sell the ~20 second variety any more.

I connected the fuel solenoid to the battery directly thinking it may not be opening all the way, and it still did not start right up. With it hooked up normally, the solenoid read 10.6V when first turned on and 11.7 volts after the glow plugs turned off.

I took the relay apart, and it read 4-5 ohms when closed (seems high).

I cleaned and made sure all the connections in the relay base were plugged in.

I have another battery, which I will charge and stick in to see it that fixes it. I stole it out of my wife's Vanagon 2.1L.

Not sure what to do next. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks - John

[Fatmobile]

How's the crank pully doing?
The 1.9s were known to have the keyway shear,..
the sprocket lets go and the pistons hit the valves.
First sign is hard starting.

[astroboy]

I have never heard of that. If the pulley has moved since I set the cam and timing, then If I check it all over again I should see that. If the pulley was moved prior to me setting everything, then it shouldn't matter as long as it does not move since then.

Now the crankshaft is tied directly to the flywheel, so the only thing that would show this up, I guess, would be to put the flat blade tool on the back of the cam shaft and then see how everything else lines up.

Maybe in the morning I will do that.

The engine does have a high pitch sound until it warms up. Maybe the valves are hitting just slightly. It does run fairly decently when it is warmed up, however.

Thanks for the info - John

[Fatmobile]

See if the crank bolt is loose,
don't turn it backward reeeeal hard, we don't want to loosen it and have to replace it with a new one

or the sprocket/pully feels loose
people have been able to grab the pully and jiggle it,

[astroboy]

When I timed it, after I put the rebuilt pump back in, I put a large box end wrench to turn the engine forward and backward. It was not too hard to turn eitherway, except when a piston was at max compression. It did hurt the fingers after awhile. It never felt loose. The nut is a little rusty now, so I put a small dab of oil on it to retard the rust. Not enough to loosen the bold however.

I re-checked the relay. I unhooked the large red wire coming from the 50 amp fuse and put my Fluke meter from that loose end and on the first glow plug and looked at the resistance during the glow plug on time (7 sec). It read 0.3 ohms which I consider decent. I sanded the ends of the cables and put them back together.

I wondered if the battery did not have enough power, so I hooked another good battery in parallel with the old battery. It turned over slightly faster, but did not start any sooner.

I am wondering if the fuel has changed. I am thinking on getting some Amzoil cetane booster and adding it to the fuel and see if it makes a difference.

- John

[astroboy]

Today, I measured the voltage drop between the relay end of the 50 amp fuse and the first glow plug (which is tied to the other glow plugs). The voltage before I energized the glow plugs was 12.6V and during the 7 seconds that the glow plugs were on the voltage varied from about 0.62V to 0.66V which is about a 12V drop. Ohm's law says E = IR, or E/I = R. Assuming 36 amps, which is what I am seeing on other posts then the resistance of the glow plugs was about .33 ohms which is reasonable. If it was 48 amps then the glow plugs would have had 0.25 ohms resistance which would also be reasonable. The resistance starts out at about 1 ohm and drops as they warm up.

I went out about about 3:00 to go shopping and I tried to start it differently. I did not pull out the advance knob and I floored it. It started on the first crank. ???

Yesterday, I suspected the fuel may have problems, and so I opened the bottom of the fuel filter to let out any water. Instead it started hissing meaing the fuel must have been heading back to the tank. I closed it harder that it was before possibly. I have no idea if this made any difference however.

I will see how it starts again tonight, which it probably will being still warm.

- John

[astroboy]

Continuing saga:

Lately, the car starts different depending on the phase of the moon.

Even when the temperature was warm outside I had to try and start it about 8 times. Eventually it will start.

I have the best success when I do not pull out the advance, and push the pedal down to the floor and wait a couple of seconds afte the LED light goes out. And the temperature does not seem to matter either.

Very frustrating. My old 1.6L started every time instantly!

One thing that I will do shortly (after taxes) is to put a clear fuel line in instead of the black rubber I am using to see it there are any bubbles in the line.

Any ideas? Thanks

[Fatmobile]

Sounds like air in the fuel.
Clear lines should help figure it out.

[rsxsr]

I would suggest doing a compression test after you verify that the crank sprocket is not moving about and there are no air bubbles in the fuel supply. Hang in there. Sounds like you are being very methodical in your approach. That is good.

[Josh]

Speaking of clear fuel hose, when running some Diesel Purge through a 1.6 passenger van one time, I saw what appeared to be nearly carbonated return fuel! It looked like the returning Diesel Purge from the pump back to the can was 7-up! Didn't seem to mean anything. Anybody else seen something like that?

I suggest this to people and I don't know if folks do it or not, but it's saved me on numerous occasions. Put a marine style bulb fuel pump in the line between the fuel filter and the inj pump. If you happen to run out of fuel, it allows you to repressurize the supply line without needing to crank the heck out of your starter motor.

[astroboy]

I have now inserted Tygon tubing (clear) between the injectors and up to the pump. The main hose from the fuel filter is also clear tubing.

I have also noted that the injector nearer the front of the car seems to be wet around the bottom whenever I look at it. A neighbor just happened to have a brand new 27 mm deep well socket that he did not use for anything and gave to me. I bored it out so it will now fit over the injector barbs.

While I have rebuilt engines, changed all four CV joints, replaced the head gasket (on the previous 1.6L engine), replaced the glow plugs, I am somewhat nervous about taking out an injector. People have noted that if you are not careful, you can crack the head, and that is stopping me. I saw a post that said to put the injector in a vise and just tighten the top half a bit to stop leaking. When I get some moola, I think I will buy a few spare injectors.

Back to the result of tubing. I had a lot of trouble getting the main hose from having bubbles in it. If fact, when I run up the RPM, I get a steady stream of bubbles coming in from the fuel filter end of the hose. Also, there is always air in the small return line coming from the last injector (that i am chicken to take out). So, I have two problems. It requires more cranking now than ever. Anyone have a shotgun to put it out of its misery?

Josh: So this bulb pump does not limit the fuel once it has been used as a pump? If so, I will run out and buy one. Is it availble online?

[Fatmobile]

Yes, very little restriction when flowing.
A snowmobile primer bulb won't crack if you need to use it in the cold.

Bubbles coming from the filter?
Does the banjo bolt for the return line have "OUT" stamped on it?

A vacuum gauge on the fuel line will let you know how hard the pump is pulling.
All my Rabbit's have a vacuum gauge on the dash.
Air in the fuel is usually caused by a restriction, not a leak.

Air bubbles coming from the filter is common on a very clogged filter.

[astroboy]

Today, I bought a marine bulb pump (per Josh's suggestion) and put it between the fuel filter and the injector pump. It moved fuel pretty well. My starter also gave up today, so, when it stops raining, I will need to take it out (not very easy to do when you have to lay on the street with the back of the car up on jack stands). In fact, it is downright hard to do!

One question I had was: If I am using the bulb pump, should the fuel go through the IP and out the return line back to the fuel tank with the ignition off? Once I pumped the bulp pump a few times, the fuel stopped flowing. I put 12V on the IP solenoid to actuate it, and the fuel still did not move. I thought the fuel went through the pump to cool it, but maybe this only happens when the engine runs.

One thing I could do, is to unhook the return line from the top fitting on the pump and connect it to the bulb pump. I would think I could pump fuel out of the tank and back into the tank. If I can't that might show there is some blockage. A few weeks ago, I tried blowing into the hose coming from the fuel filter and I could just barely hear some bubbling in the fuel tank.

One other thing. On another post, someone changed one or two injectors, and was told that the bubbles in the clear lines between the injectors would go away quickly if they just rev'd the enging a few times. When my van was running, the bubbles in my clear lines between the injectors don't seem to move at all even with the engine rev'd up, but the bubbles pulsate foreward and back wards a bit. Is this normal?

I looked at three of the banjo bolt heads (I would need a mirror to see the other one on the side of the fuel filter housing), and there are no marks on them whatsoever. But the ones on the fuel filter are in the original locations forever. I could check those on the fuel pump, but I think they were different so could only go one way, but maybe wrong.

I would really like to take the fuel tank off and clean it out. I had some rust in the past which clogged a fuel filter. The current one is almost new (changed when this all started).

Maybe tonight I will order a vacuum gage from McMaster Carr unless I can find someone locally that has one. Usually they get it to me withing a day or two.

Thanks for the help people!

[Fatmobile]

The stop solenoid has nothing to do with fuel being drawn from the tank and returned out the top and back to the tank.

Not sure why the primer bulb stopped pumping, sounds like a restriction.

[astroboy]

Today, I put in a new starter (I am now sore). It was not very easy getting the lip of the starter past the bracket that holds the clutch hydraulic cylinder.

I used the marine bulp pump to prime the pump, and she started right up. One thing that really helped was the speed of rotation of the new pump - much faster.

I still had air bubbles. From the fuel filter less than before, but out of the bulp pump there was a lot more like what was coming from the fuel filter. So I think that the pump is pulling to high a vacuum pulling air out of the fuel.

So, next is:
1) Hook the bulb pump over to the return line back to the tank so see if the flow there is free
2) Get a vacuum gage and put in the input fuel line. Not sure where to put it, but If it has double barbed fittings, I can measure the vacuum anywhere.

So, Fatmobile, I should be able to operate the bulb pump continuously and watch fuel go into the injector pump continously?

At least I can get it started and use the car without cranking HOORAY! Thanks again Josh for the bulb pump idea, and thanks to others for their suggestions.