Hi - sort of asked this before, but I'm looking at buying an engine now and need to know for definate - I have a 1.6d Type 25 (3) camper van, will an AAZ 1.9Turbo engine fit straight on to the engine mounts, oil pan gearbox etc. If anyone has done this I'll be grateful of advice. I've heard that I'll need the oil pan and pick up from my current 1.6, but that's all.
Cheers
AAZ engine into a caravele
Moderator: Fatmobile
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diesel dunk
- Cetane Booster
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- Joined: Mon Oct 24, 2005 7:08 pm
- Location: UK
It will fit fine. There are obviously some issues to adress. The following pictures are all of my 1.6TD into a vanagon (caravelle), but the concepts are exactly the same. The driver's side mounting bracket will collide with the wastegate of the turbocharger. Here's how I fixed it. I chopped the nose off the mount and added metal to the underside. Bolts go through bracket and flat steel with appropriate bolt holes is on the inside to disperse the weight.
Because I added metal to the underside of the mount, the engine was effectively raised. To lower it I added a spacer at the front and drilled higher bolt holes in the rear of the carrier bar.
spacer:
Higher bolt holes:
Another option is to use the Quantum TD manifold or one from a TD caravelle. That option mounts the turbo precariously low, but is what VW did. One thing I discovered after doing my conversion is that the Quantum manifold flipped over actually places the turbo in a fantastic location.
EDIT 2/17/06: The flipped quantum manifold will not work as there is a severe interference between the wastegate and intake manifold.
No mount interference and easy plumbing locations for intake and exhaust. It would require a slight amount of clearancing to fit with the intake manifold, but not much. Bolt holes and port holes all line up fine flipped.
The turbo needs to be indexed to drain properly (in at 12:00 out at 6:00). Unfortunately with the jetta manifold (and stock AAZ) that places the drain directly in line with the wastegate with very little room to maneuver. Here's my solution.
There is no fitting for the oil return into the oil pan. I happened across a TD Vanagon oil pan and so that was not an issue for me. On my next conversion I will place flat steel on inside and outside of pan and drill two bolt holes to hold it there. Then one hole through the two flats and the pan will get tapped and receive a pipe fitting.
You will need to fabricate a new exhaust.
You wil need to reroute your air intake. And you should add an intercooler for fun.
The stock oil cooler is insufficient. I stacked a couple, but still feel that is insufficient in the long run.
If you have the 4-speed tranny it will be utterly inadequate with the added torque of the 1.9TD. You will need to go with the 5-speed diesel tranny with tall tires, or the DK tranny from an air-cooled.
You will want a pyrometer (EGT) gauge. And there will be a slight interference between the engine lid and the aneroid if you use the AAZ pump.
Other than that, it's a bolt in. Enjoy the fantastic upgrade.
Andrew[/img]
Because I added metal to the underside of the mount, the engine was effectively raised. To lower it I added a spacer at the front and drilled higher bolt holes in the rear of the carrier bar.
spacer:
Higher bolt holes:
Another option is to use the Quantum TD manifold or one from a TD caravelle. That option mounts the turbo precariously low, but is what VW did. One thing I discovered after doing my conversion is that the Quantum manifold flipped over actually places the turbo in a fantastic location.
EDIT 2/17/06: The flipped quantum manifold will not work as there is a severe interference between the wastegate and intake manifold.
No mount interference and easy plumbing locations for intake and exhaust. It would require a slight amount of clearancing to fit with the intake manifold, but not much. Bolt holes and port holes all line up fine flipped.
The turbo needs to be indexed to drain properly (in at 12:00 out at 6:00). Unfortunately with the jetta manifold (and stock AAZ) that places the drain directly in line with the wastegate with very little room to maneuver. Here's my solution.
There is no fitting for the oil return into the oil pan. I happened across a TD Vanagon oil pan and so that was not an issue for me. On my next conversion I will place flat steel on inside and outside of pan and drill two bolt holes to hold it there. Then one hole through the two flats and the pan will get tapped and receive a pipe fitting.
You will need to fabricate a new exhaust.
You wil need to reroute your air intake. And you should add an intercooler for fun.
The stock oil cooler is insufficient. I stacked a couple, but still feel that is insufficient in the long run.
If you have the 4-speed tranny it will be utterly inadequate with the added torque of the 1.9TD. You will need to go with the 5-speed diesel tranny with tall tires, or the DK tranny from an air-cooled.
You will want a pyrometer (EGT) gauge. And there will be a slight interference between the engine lid and the aneroid if you use the AAZ pump.
Other than that, it's a bolt in. Enjoy the fantastic upgrade.
Andrew[/img]
Last edited by libbybapa on Fri Feb 17, 2006 7:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
-
diesel dunk
- Cetane Booster
- Posts: 97
- Joined: Mon Oct 24, 2005 7:08 pm
- Location: UK
Man - you are a legend - thanks for all that effort. I'll let you know if and when it happens. My engineering learning curve is very steep and I'm looking forward to making my bus into a mean machine, but sadly for now I think this option is scuppered by the quick need to get the lump running so I can get to work. I may buy the engine now anyway, as it's cheap, and then I can take a while planning exactly what I need to do - during which time I'm sure there will be a few question coming your way.
Thanks again.
Duncan.
Thanks again.
Duncan.
You could certainly do the sacreligious act of installing the 1.9TD AAZ in and run it with the stock vanagon diesel parts (intake and exhaust) until you get around to the fabrication necessary to add the turbo. It would work just fine, and you would at least have the 1.9L displacement, so there would be a little more umph. It is just a bit of a shame to have a 1.9TD and run it without the turbo, but it would work fine and not hurt the motor any.
The 1.9's were notorious for ruining the crankshaft keyway and jumping time and self-destructing. The crank snout can be fixed, but look into that. You may have to remove the crank to get the snout redone.
If you can get a 1.9TD for cheap, I'm jealous. They were never imported into the US.
Andrew
The 1.9's were notorious for ruining the crankshaft keyway and jumping time and self-destructing. The crank snout can be fixed, but look into that. You may have to remove the crank to get the snout redone.
If you can get a 1.9TD for cheap, I'm jealous. They were never imported into the US.
Andrew
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Fatmobile
- Global Moderator
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1.6 TD crank
The 1.6 TD has the same crank key problem.
I got a free car from a guy because of it ... and my other turbo diesel engine has obvious damage to the crank keyway and gear but hadn't completly gave out yet.
I got a free car from a guy because of it ... and my other turbo diesel engine has obvious damage to the crank keyway and gear but hadn't completly gave out yet.
Funny I've never heard of the keyway problem on 1.6...
Since we have a transplant master in our presence, I have to ask a few questions. What oil cooler setup do you plan to use? Do you monitor oil temps to know it's not sufficient? Also, do you have any insight on drilling the diesel oil pan for the return? Could you give some ideas for oil line and return issues created by the flipped quantum manifold? Does the turbo stick up far enough to interfere with the decklid? What exactly would need trimming in the flipped config.
Thansk for any advice in advance.
Since we have a transplant master in our presence, I have to ask a few questions. What oil cooler setup do you plan to use? Do you monitor oil temps to know it's not sufficient? Also, do you have any insight on drilling the diesel oil pan for the return? Could you give some ideas for oil line and return issues created by the flipped quantum manifold? Does the turbo stick up far enough to interfere with the decklid? What exactly would need trimming in the flipped config.
Thansk for any advice in advance.
I currently have two of the jetta/golf oil/coolant exchangers stacked. I do not have a gauge on there yet, but will in the future. I do not know if I would consider that an adequate oil cooler solution and have not decided which way to go in the fuure.
http://members.shaw.ca/vwdiesel/
The above link shows one method for adding an oil return fitting to a n/a vanagon pan. A bung could be welded on the pan, but that is above the capabilities of most folks. I actually bought an actual TD oil pan (by accident!) which already had the threaded boss for the return line. I added a barb fitting and used 1/2" ID hydraulic multi-purpose hose.
There would not be any oil return line issues created by the flipped quantum manifold, in fact it would eliminate the interference with the wastegate when the turbo is indexed properly, and give a very nice vertical run for good gravity flow drainage. The turbo would not interfere with the decklid AFAIK, certainly not if the K14 was used, which is the bolt up turbo to use with a vanagon IMO, and what was used by vw in the TD vanagon.
EDIT 2/17/06: The flipped quantum manifold will not work as there is a severe interference between the wastegate and intake manifold.
Andrew
http://members.shaw.ca/vwdiesel/
The above link shows one method for adding an oil return fitting to a n/a vanagon pan. A bung could be welded on the pan, but that is above the capabilities of most folks. I actually bought an actual TD oil pan (by accident!) which already had the threaded boss for the return line. I added a barb fitting and used 1/2" ID hydraulic multi-purpose hose.
There would not be any oil return line issues created by the flipped quantum manifold, in fact it would eliminate the interference with the wastegate when the turbo is indexed properly, and give a very nice vertical run for good gravity flow drainage. The turbo would not interfere with the decklid AFAIK, certainly not if the K14 was used, which is the bolt up turbo to use with a vanagon IMO, and what was used by vw in the TD vanagon.
EDIT 2/17/06: The flipped quantum manifold will not work as there is a severe interference between the wastegate and intake manifold.
Andrew
Last edited by libbybapa on Fri Feb 17, 2006 7:45 pm, edited 2 times in total.
libby,
great pics, and advice.
So I am interested in your dual oil cooler setup.
Do oil temps get so high that it's required?
Would an auxilary oil cooler with a temp operated fan be an alternative?
I assume that moving all the heat to the coolant just makes the engine run hot..
Also, I plan to either use the t3 or the k24, perhaps I should limit boost?
1 more.. do regular NA diesel vanagons have hot running issues?
great pics, and advice.
So I am interested in your dual oil cooler setup.
Do oil temps get so high that it's required?
Would an auxilary oil cooler with a temp operated fan be an alternative?
I assume that moving all the heat to the coolant just makes the engine run hot..
Also, I plan to either use the t3 or the k24, perhaps I should limit boost?
1 more.. do regular NA diesel vanagons have hot running issues?
The major difficulty with the stock oil coolers is that with the stock flow path, the hottest coolant leaving the head is sent down through the coolers and then recycled through the engine. An oil to air cooler might be a good idea. Be sure to get one the does not flow the oil through it until the oil is hot. Some additional oil cooling is required on the TD vanagon for sure. As I mentioned, I do not have a gauge on mine yet so I con't really comment further.
The K24 or T3 are only useful if you are going to run more than 17 psi of boost. On the vanagon the lag time is terrible unless you are blowing a cloud off smoke. The lag also makes hill climbing from a stop almost impossible because you cannot rev the engine in a lower gear high enough to catch boost on the next gear up when you shift. That is especially true with a 4-speed. I ran a k24 for a little while on my 5-speed and there were small hills where I could not accelerate at 15 mph in second because the engine was revved out in 1st and I was not into the boosting rpms of second. The K14 will push the same boost more than 1,000 rpm's sooner and will boost 17 psi through the upper rpm range. With the k14 I could accelerate on a very long 6% grade up to 50 in 4th gear from a stop. With the k24 I would have litterally been stuck at 15 mph in second. If you are not going to use more boost than 17 psi you are trading faster spool up for absolutely no benefit. You are pushing 2,000 lbs more than a jetta which makes the spool time issue a whole lot more obvious and irritating.
The regular diesel vanagon in proper order does not have hot running issues.
Andrew
The K24 or T3 are only useful if you are going to run more than 17 psi of boost. On the vanagon the lag time is terrible unless you are blowing a cloud off smoke. The lag also makes hill climbing from a stop almost impossible because you cannot rev the engine in a lower gear high enough to catch boost on the next gear up when you shift. That is especially true with a 4-speed. I ran a k24 for a little while on my 5-speed and there were small hills where I could not accelerate at 15 mph in second because the engine was revved out in 1st and I was not into the boosting rpms of second. The K14 will push the same boost more than 1,000 rpm's sooner and will boost 17 psi through the upper rpm range. With the k14 I could accelerate on a very long 6% grade up to 50 in 4th gear from a stop. With the k24 I would have litterally been stuck at 15 mph in second. If you are not going to use more boost than 17 psi you are trading faster spool up for absolutely no benefit. You are pushing 2,000 lbs more than a jetta which makes the spool time issue a whole lot more obvious and irritating.
The regular diesel vanagon in proper order does not have hot running issues.
Andrew