Hello!
I searched but could not find an answer to this question.
My injector pump has two springs, one below the throttle lever, and the other above, around a metal "cup." In doing some seal replacing, I realized the the lower spring is truly the return spring, acting between the throttle lever and the cover casting. The upper spring acts between the throttle lever and a smaller thin "lever". Pictures and diagrams for the VE pumps show that some have the second (upper) spring, and others do not.
Since the throttle lever is directly splined to the shaft, I honestly do not see what the purpose of the upper spring is. Can someone enlighten me?
Bob
Bosch VE Pump Throttle Lever Springs
Moderator: Fatmobile
Bosch VE Pump Throttle Lever Springs
A coward dies a thousand deaths,
A brave man dies but once.
A brave man dies but once.
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Vincent Waldon
- Turbo Charger
- Posts: 1148
- Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2006 3:05 pm
- Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
My only guess, having seen many many different throttle configurations on vehicles over the years, is that there's some application Bosch pumps are used in that uses a different lever and needs the spring... gen set perhaps ? Airplane ??! Hovercar ?!
Manufacturers sometimes ship stuff that's generic for other applications and don't take the time to delete the unused pieces for a specific application.
One thing for sure... if they think they don't need it at all they will not put it there in the first place. Witness my favorite ice racing car of all time... the Corvair... many many people rolled and worse owing to a 5 dollar suspension part deleted as part of a cost optimization exercise.
Someday we should post pictures of those springs (a) for those of us who get lost during reassembly our first time and (b) a monument to frustration !
Manufacturers sometimes ship stuff that's generic for other applications and don't take the time to delete the unused pieces for a specific application.
One thing for sure... if they think they don't need it at all they will not put it there in the first place. Witness my favorite ice racing car of all time... the Corvair... many many people rolled and worse owing to a 5 dollar suspension part deleted as part of a cost optimization exercise.
Someday we should post pictures of those springs (a) for those of us who get lost during reassembly our first time and (b) a monument to frustration !
Vince
Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
2001 silver TDI Jetta Malone Stage 1.5 , 2001 blue TDI Jetta SBIII 216s Malone Stage 3
1970 Bay Window bus
Gone but not forgotten: 1969/1971 Beetles, 1969/1974 Westies, 1979 Rabbit, 1986 TD Jetta, 1992 gas Jetta, 1994 TD Jetta
Here's a small collection of HOW-TOs
Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
2001 silver TDI Jetta Malone Stage 1.5 , 2001 blue TDI Jetta SBIII 216s Malone Stage 3
1970 Bay Window bus
Gone but not forgotten: 1969/1971 Beetles, 1969/1974 Westies, 1979 Rabbit, 1986 TD Jetta, 1992 gas Jetta, 1994 TD Jetta
Here's a small collection of HOW-TOs
On my pump there seems to be two levers. Most of the travel is on one spring and lever and then towards the end, the other spring kicks in and the other lever moves. I figured this was like a simulated second butterfly, to give a little more pedal effort feedback to the driver so he knew when he was asking for heroic fueling levels?
'82 Diesel Rabbit • '88 Fox (RIP) • '88 Jetta (work in progress)
Are you saying the Corvair was prone to rolling? Becuase it is not.
There was a study done after the book"unsafe at any speed" was written.
It found the Corvair as safe as any other car on the road. This publication was not widely spread in the media as the media slammed the Corvair previously. Do some research and find out the truth of the Corvair. I personally like them, they completely took from VW on the design(rear air cooled). Pretty good hp/cid as well with the supercharged ones.
There was a study done after the book"unsafe at any speed" was written.
It found the Corvair as safe as any other car on the road. This publication was not widely spread in the media as the media slammed the Corvair previously. Do some research and find out the truth of the Corvair. I personally like them, they completely took from VW on the design(rear air cooled). Pretty good hp/cid as well with the supercharged ones.
I found those springs a little tricky myself, I just yelled for the wife to come and "here hold this spring while I" type of deal and it was easy then.
One thing I never seen was this exhuast clamp you guys are talking about. Not one Vw I have owned had this set up and I guess its a good thing. Must have been on the square headlight ones
Putting the injection pump pressure end back together without dropping a spring or having somehing out of place was probably the hardest thing I ever done on a VW. The rest is all straightforward.
You know you probably could just leave them both off and make a bracket on the IP and put a normal throttle return spring and drill a small hole in the IP linkage arm. But then again, this would put unwanted side load on the shaft and probably cause things to wear out.(o-rings, fuel leak) I would stick with whatever is on there and deal with the springs. Just need to relax and if your frustrated walk away and come back later. I have wrecked more things by fighting with them untill something lets go(almost lost my eye once taking a door panel off with a screwdriver and slipped and hit myself between the eyes, have a scar there today, with your eyes you get two chances and then your blind. ALWAYS WEAR SAFTEY GLASSES WHEN WORKING WITH SPRINGS!! I know it may be dorky but sitting in a ER continually to get metal taken out of your eyes sucks(thats another story)
One thing I never seen was this exhuast clamp you guys are talking about. Not one Vw I have owned had this set up and I guess its a good thing. Must have been on the square headlight ones
Putting the injection pump pressure end back together without dropping a spring or having somehing out of place was probably the hardest thing I ever done on a VW. The rest is all straightforward.You know you probably could just leave them both off and make a bracket on the IP and put a normal throttle return spring and drill a small hole in the IP linkage arm. But then again, this would put unwanted side load on the shaft and probably cause things to wear out.(o-rings, fuel leak) I would stick with whatever is on there and deal with the springs. Just need to relax and if your frustrated walk away and come back later. I have wrecked more things by fighting with them untill something lets go(almost lost my eye once taking a door panel off with a screwdriver and slipped and hit myself between the eyes, have a scar there today, with your eyes you get two chances and then your blind. ALWAYS WEAR SAFTEY GLASSES WHEN WORKING WITH SPRINGS!! I know it may be dorky but sitting in a ER continually to get metal taken out of your eyes sucks(thats another story)
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Vincent Waldon
- Turbo Charger
- Posts: 1148
- Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2006 3:05 pm
- Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Totally off topic but oh well we love car history: no I'm not saying the Corvair was any more prone to roll than any other swing axle car.... however it was capable of speeds far greater than your average Beetle and needed very specific tire pressures for maximum stability. Many people got themselves into serious trouble in the early versions before GM added an antisway bar... a part they had decided to delete originally. From Wikipedia's article on the Corvair, for example:
"Chevrolet had considered adding a front anti-roll bar for the original 1960 car, which would have shifted a significant part of this weight transfer to the FRONT outboard tire and reduced the rear slip angles considerably in severe cornering, but the extra cost ($6 per car is often cited) and confidence in the tire pressure differential adequately compensating for the inclination for oversteer led GM to delete the anti–roll bar from production models. This false economy was to come back to haunt GM later. "
Early Beetles (another rear engine swing axle design of that era) didn't have antisway bars either... Ralph wasn't very happy about the Beetle either. Both make fun ice racers *because* they like to oversteer.
I think it was DeLorean who was famous for saying "parts left out cost us nothing and cause no service issues"... still would love to know what the top spring on the Bosch IP throttle shaft is for !!!
Vince
"Chevrolet had considered adding a front anti-roll bar for the original 1960 car, which would have shifted a significant part of this weight transfer to the FRONT outboard tire and reduced the rear slip angles considerably in severe cornering, but the extra cost ($6 per car is often cited) and confidence in the tire pressure differential adequately compensating for the inclination for oversteer led GM to delete the anti–roll bar from production models. This false economy was to come back to haunt GM later. "
Early Beetles (another rear engine swing axle design of that era) didn't have antisway bars either... Ralph wasn't very happy about the Beetle either. Both make fun ice racers *because* they like to oversteer.
I think it was DeLorean who was famous for saying "parts left out cost us nothing and cause no service issues"... still would love to know what the top spring on the Bosch IP throttle shaft is for !!!
Vince
Vince
Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
2001 silver TDI Jetta Malone Stage 1.5 , 2001 blue TDI Jetta SBIII 216s Malone Stage 3
1970 Bay Window bus
Gone but not forgotten: 1969/1971 Beetles, 1969/1974 Westies, 1979 Rabbit, 1986 TD Jetta, 1992 gas Jetta, 1994 TD Jetta
Here's a small collection of HOW-TOs
Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
2001 silver TDI Jetta Malone Stage 1.5 , 2001 blue TDI Jetta SBIII 216s Malone Stage 3
1970 Bay Window bus
Gone but not forgotten: 1969/1971 Beetles, 1969/1974 Westies, 1979 Rabbit, 1986 TD Jetta, 1992 gas Jetta, 1994 TD Jetta
Here's a small collection of HOW-TOs
The other spring is just there and its small and adds one more thing to put back on. I remeber putting it back together in two or three steps the linkage, its not as easy as jam everything on.
Heres something interesting: taken from http://www.corvair.com/user-cgi/pages.c ... airhistory
"The Corvair will probably always be linked to Ralph Nader's mid '60s book. Most of this book is not about the Corvair, but the Corvair received most of the attention. The majority of the controversy was about the rear suspension of the 1960-63 Corvairs. It was claimed that they would "tuck in" causing the car to go out of control & flip!! There was a film produced to show the Corvair going out of control-but it has been contended that "tricks" were used to get the Corvair to finally lose control. GM hired race drivers and other experts to prove that the Corvair was safe and the general conclusion was that it was as safe (if not safer) than most cars of the time. The final report by the National Highway Safety Administration was not given until 1972. The Corvair "won" - but it was too late and received little space in the news of the day."
The 64 corvairs were better they say because they added a spring to the rear suspension to keep the wheels from tucking in.
Sorry to go off topic. Talking about cars is my life.
You are definatly right on the going faster with the same suspension design will lead a easier ability to roll. It only makes sense and no one could argue that. They had 150hp on the monza spyder models! Crazy!
Heres something interesting: taken from http://www.corvair.com/user-cgi/pages.c ... airhistory
"The Corvair will probably always be linked to Ralph Nader's mid '60s book. Most of this book is not about the Corvair, but the Corvair received most of the attention. The majority of the controversy was about the rear suspension of the 1960-63 Corvairs. It was claimed that they would "tuck in" causing the car to go out of control & flip!! There was a film produced to show the Corvair going out of control-but it has been contended that "tricks" were used to get the Corvair to finally lose control. GM hired race drivers and other experts to prove that the Corvair was safe and the general conclusion was that it was as safe (if not safer) than most cars of the time. The final report by the National Highway Safety Administration was not given until 1972. The Corvair "won" - but it was too late and received little space in the news of the day."
The 64 corvairs were better they say because they added a spring to the rear suspension to keep the wheels from tucking in.
Sorry to go off topic. Talking about cars is my life.
You are definatly right on the going faster with the same suspension design will lead a easier ability to roll. It only makes sense and no one could argue that. They had 150hp on the monza spyder models! Crazy!
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Vincent Waldon
- Turbo Charger
- Posts: 1148
- Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2006 3:05 pm
- Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Yeah, I meant that *I* was going to take us further off-topic... weird cars are kinda a passion for me as well. 
My only beef with the Corvair was that it was damn cold in the winter (just like the Beetle) so we froze our butts off tearing around a frozen lake... but we had the 150 hp versions and adrenalin helped keep us warm.
My only beef with the Corvair was that it was damn cold in the winter (just like the Beetle) so we froze our butts off tearing around a frozen lake... but we had the 150 hp versions and adrenalin helped keep us warm.
Vince
Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
2001 silver TDI Jetta Malone Stage 1.5 , 2001 blue TDI Jetta SBIII 216s Malone Stage 3
1970 Bay Window bus
Gone but not forgotten: 1969/1971 Beetles, 1969/1974 Westies, 1979 Rabbit, 1986 TD Jetta, 1992 gas Jetta, 1994 TD Jetta
Here's a small collection of HOW-TOs
Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
2001 silver TDI Jetta Malone Stage 1.5 , 2001 blue TDI Jetta SBIII 216s Malone Stage 3
1970 Bay Window bus
Gone but not forgotten: 1969/1971 Beetles, 1969/1974 Westies, 1979 Rabbit, 1986 TD Jetta, 1992 gas Jetta, 1994 TD Jetta
Here's a small collection of HOW-TOs
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hagar
- Hillbilly Tuner
- Posts: 2424
- Joined: Sat Mar 11, 2006 10:11 am
- Location: Near Lund B.C. Kanada.
Corwair.
Ok you guys rattled hagars chain----Ice racing and the Corvair -- in hagar's hands it was SAFE at any speed. ---I liked the handling.
Most of my Ice Racing was in my 1957 MGA ---- if you raced on lake Wakefield Q. that white MGA that beat everybody was me hagar---white lightening.---- nobody beat us on that track -----a Volvo rolled one day ----if you did let us know ? EH ?
I took a guy for a spin and he leaned against the door ----and was tossed out in a snowdrift.
IMHO real good driving was showing on the lake --better than on pavement. Handling Fraulein Bunny Bondo ? I have to be very careful NOT to roll her turning right around a corner.----I can roll her any time.-----yes she does warn you the rear wheel right lifts righ off the ground.---scary very scary.
hagar.
Most of my Ice Racing was in my 1957 MGA ---- if you raced on lake Wakefield Q. that white MGA that beat everybody was me hagar---white lightening.---- nobody beat us on that track -----a Volvo rolled one day ----if you did let us know ? EH ?
I took a guy for a spin and he leaned against the door ----and was tossed out in a snowdrift.
IMHO real good driving was showing on the lake --better than on pavement. Handling Fraulein Bunny Bondo ? I have to be very careful NOT to roll her turning right around a corner.----I can roll her any time.-----yes she does warn you the rear wheel right lifts righ off the ground.---scary very scary.
hagar.
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stopping
- Diesel Freak
- Posts: 199
- Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2005 2:53 pm
- Location: Montreal, QC, and StJohn's, Nfld, Canada
The lower spring that does the returning I see as the two lower springs.... they act together. The top and nasty spring (for me) was the spring that gives so you don't break your throttle cable by stomping on it! The top one is the cursed one.
Btw what is the little one for? I have four springs and I didn't make the small one fit! Seems to work well though.... grease is amazing.
When I lived in Toronto I had a bunch of crazy bicycle couriers I was friends with...... every Valentines day we would have an ice race for bikes on the lagoons of Toronto Island. We cut slabs from the ice with chain saws and a big homemade chainsaw based cutter in the steel frame that would slide along the ice. We made a 0.5km figure 8 track with three foot ice walls on both sides back lit with candles. Figure 8 so the leaders would have to negotiate those lagging riders at the junction. Home made spike tires and a bare rubber class...... great spectator sport with beer and a fire in a barrel.
Btw what is the little one for? I have four springs and I didn't make the small one fit! Seems to work well though.... grease is amazing.
When I lived in Toronto I had a bunch of crazy bicycle couriers I was friends with...... every Valentines day we would have an ice race for bikes on the lagoons of Toronto Island. We cut slabs from the ice with chain saws and a big homemade chainsaw based cutter in the steel frame that would slide along the ice. We made a 0.5km figure 8 track with three foot ice walls on both sides back lit with candles. Figure 8 so the leaders would have to negotiate those lagging riders at the junction. Home made spike tires and a bare rubber class...... great spectator sport with beer and a fire in a barrel.
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Vincent Waldon
- Turbo Charger
- Posts: 1148
- Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2006 3:05 pm
- Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Booze makes *everything* a great spectator sport.
OK, really really really off topic.. !!!
Vince
OK, really really really off topic.. !!!
Vince
Vince
Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
2001 silver TDI Jetta Malone Stage 1.5 , 2001 blue TDI Jetta SBIII 216s Malone Stage 3
1970 Bay Window bus
Gone but not forgotten: 1969/1971 Beetles, 1969/1974 Westies, 1979 Rabbit, 1986 TD Jetta, 1992 gas Jetta, 1994 TD Jetta
Here's a small collection of HOW-TOs
Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
2001 silver TDI Jetta Malone Stage 1.5 , 2001 blue TDI Jetta SBIII 216s Malone Stage 3
1970 Bay Window bus
Gone but not forgotten: 1969/1971 Beetles, 1969/1974 Westies, 1979 Rabbit, 1986 TD Jetta, 1992 gas Jetta, 1994 TD Jetta
Here's a small collection of HOW-TOs
Thank you!
Thanks to all who posted info on my question.
Incidentally, I had a Corvair about 35 years ago, and soon after I got it, I was really pushing it hard around a corner, and -- whoosh -- I found myself in the oncoming lane, facing 180 degrees from my original direction. No traffic, so I just turned around and kept on going.
I never had any problems after that because I knew how the car reacted to that type of handling. However, in an era of understeering barges, the Corvair was so different, that many didn't, or wouldn't, learn to treat it as a different type of animal.
Bob
Incidentally, I had a Corvair about 35 years ago, and soon after I got it, I was really pushing it hard around a corner, and -- whoosh -- I found myself in the oncoming lane, facing 180 degrees from my original direction. No traffic, so I just turned around and kept on going.
I never had any problems after that because I knew how the car reacted to that type of handling. However, in an era of understeering barges, the Corvair was so different, that many didn't, or wouldn't, learn to treat it as a different type of animal.
Bob
A coward dies a thousand deaths,
A brave man dies but once.
A brave man dies but once.