1986 1.6 golf diesel help

[aufhenberg]

i cracked the lines, hand pumped it, waited. turned the key to on, waited. then tried to start the car and nothing, not a drop.

theres the fuel lines that come from the high pressure head into the metal lines to the injectors. from the injectors is a rubber hose thats connects to the other injectors and goes to the return line on the pump. when i hand pump it theres fuel coming from the rubber hoses, but not the fuel lines...

Have i done the timing wrong? i thought that if i did the timing wrong it would mess with the rpm's not the actual starting of the car. could i push start it and force the fuel thru the lines or something of the sort??

[coke]

Is the woodruff key properly installed in the IP shaft? Thats the only other thing I can think of, unless the fuel shutoff valve isn't doing what its supposed to do.

[aufhenberg]

http://www.jimellisvwparts.com/showAsse ... bly=744395

number 7 on this blown up view? is it the little tooth looking thing on the spindle of the ip that goes into the gear? then it should be properly installed since there was one on the new pump. any possibilities i didnt put the gear on the spindle enough and its causing the woodruff key gripe you are talking about?


http://i.imgur.com/PBI0k.jpg cam shaft timing TDC mark
http://imgur.com/PBI0k,Ybo3e,i9Ut7#1 IP timing mark (note) see the notch in the gear near the top of the pic?
http://imgur.com/PBI0k,Ybo3e,i9Ut7#2 IP timing mark (note) if that notch was TDC, then i couldnt use the gear locking pin, so i dont believe its 180 out.

[coke]

Well, that mark is lined up but what about crankshaft at TDC and cam at TDC?

[aufhenberg]

cam shaft is def at tdc, i got the locking plate in it, but idk about the crank shaft. i used the bentley as reference as to where it should be to be at tdc. flywheel tdc = crankshaft tdc or no? if the crank was NOT at tdc, wouldnt i hear some horrendous noise from piston valve contact?

[82vdub]

I think we need to go back to basics here. The engine died, then refired, then lost power. Somehow from that you got a new IP put on the car. Ok, that's where we're at. Now, you can ask about timing, settings of this or that and if the glow plugs are working or whatever, but none of that matters until you have fuel coming out of the injector pump. No fuel means no start irregardless of anything else.

What we know is that the injector pump is full of fuel. Rig up a bottle of fuel with a fuel filter on it that goes right to the IP. Hang it higher than the IP so you know for 100% sure it's getting good fuel. You hotwired the fuel solenoid and it clicks, but still no fuel. I would then take the solenoid out, remove the plunger and spring and reinstall and see if you have fuel coming out the injector lines. The IP is new, but is the fuel solenoid new or used from the rebuilder?? Even new one's can be junk. No fuel means that the pump is not moving fuel, or it's not getting any.

Where did you get the rebuilt pump from? Was it a guy on ebay or from a national rebuilder or did you have your old one rebuilt?

Go back to basics and look at what's wrong with the pump not supplying, or moving or getting fuel. Diagnose from there.

[aufhenberg]

I bought it from the diesel store online, got my tools from [removed by moderator] where would i get a fuel filter for such a thing? For this bottle, am i attaching it to the IN line? i got a bottle of diesel sitting outside from bleeding the lines.

Rig up a bottle of fuel with a fuel filter on it that goes right to the IP.

now, if i take out the solenoid, what is going to be underneath of it? is there a possibility of me openening this up and trashing the IP? because i cannot afford a new one. i sent an email to them asking about it, but i havent had a reply.

[bscutt]

I still think there's something simple here causing the problem. In your reply to my last post I didn't see definitively where you jumpered the pump solenoid to the battery then cranked the starter with the lines cracked for at least 30 seconds - then stop, check for fuel, and if none do it again. I'll assume you did that and just didn't include that detail. 82VDUB is correct, there's a chance that the solenoid on the new pump is bad but it's unlikely. Most good pump places will do a full test on the pump to make sure it's at least putting out fuel at the correct pressure and it would be hard to to that without the solenoid working.

I would pull one or more of the lines off the pump and also see if you get fuel spitting out when cranking with the solenoid jumpered on. It seems redundant since what goes into the lines would surely come out the other end at the injector. It would suck to find out the lines were somehow clogged but if you have fuel spits out the back of the pump I'd look at the lines and blow them out with some brakleen.

As for the hand pump, you have proven that you can force fuel through the pump's low pressure side up to and including the excess fuel return lines at the injectors. If you have the pump that full of fuel and the solenoid powered on, something should come out of the unions at the back of the pump. I would go back through step by step and recheck everything and assume nothing is correct. I can't tell you how many times I have kicked myself in the butt because I assumed one part of the item I was working on/troubleshooting must be correct so I spent lots of time looking at the wrong item.

[aufhenberg]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-1PWvYB ... e=youtu.be

ive left the key turned to on for 30+ seconds several times. no fuel is coming out of those lines...the pump came with a tag that said it was tested.

with all of the lines taken off at once, fuel only dribbles for a second from the bottom left line (#1 cylinder), the other four are dry. when i take off the lines, theres a little bit of fuel in the line but that it. and i have yet to see the fuel spray, much less at 15,000 psi or whatever the pressure is.

If you have the pump that full of fuel and the solenoid powered on, something should come out of the unions at the back of the pump. I would go back through step by step and recheck everything and assume nothing is correct. I can't tell you how many times I have kicked myself in the butt because I assumed one part of the item I was working on/troubleshooting must be correct so I spent lots of time looking at the wrong item.

Fuel is present, just not shooting out....would this be a sign of maintainer error with the installation or a part internal failure?

[coke]

It isn't going to produce 15000 psi with nothing connected to it. Seen how small the line openings are? It'll dribble out. If it isn't dribbling out all the injector ports on the pump, I would be suspicious.

[TylerDurden]

No wonder yer rippin yer hair out. Really frustrating.

Here's the solenoid guts:
(sorry for the big pic, not mine)



Some folks remove the plunger and spring and replace the body to see if the valve is sticking. If there is still no fuel from all the delivery valves while cranking, something internal is fubar.

[TylerDurden]

So, it sounds like you are doing most everything right, but a couple of points worth mentioning:

Preload on the dial-gauge when timing the IP ensures that the gauge is following the plunger the entire range of its stroke. The stroke is about 2mm... so if you insert the gauge until it reads 2.5mm, you can be certain it will read actual plunger movement at any point. Then, you can follow the Bentley method by turning the motor backwards until there is no more movement of the gauge, THEN reset the face of the gauge to zero. If you don't preload at least 2.5mm, you might see the gauge stop moving and think the plunger reached full retraction.

From your video, it seems the cranking is a bit slow... not a big issue at the moment, but in chilly weather it can make a big difference.

As stated by others, the fuel will not be blasting out the delivery ports, but it should spit & dribble out each port after 30sec of cranking, provided the IP is well primed. It is high-pressure, but low volume. (Injector-spray is by contrast, a brief blast due to the tiny orifice. Never get injected through the skin... very bad.)


We have members all around, so if you post your location, you might get a helping hand.

[82vdub]

Take out the guts of the solenoid. You'll know for sure if it's the problem. Once you isolate that it is or isn't the problem, then you can move to something else why it's not getting fuel. However, if you remove the fuel system on the entire vehicle and bottle feed it, you are isolating where the problem may reside and can troubleshoot based on that.

I would also like to mention that when your cranking it, you're only cranking it for about 4-5 revolutions. You probably need to let it crank for longer than that. The click you hear after you have the key on for a while may be the glow plug relay, or something else. In any case, remove the plunger from the fuel solenoid and it's spring, reinstall and see if the car will flow fuel out the ports. if not, it's not the solenoid. If it will, then it's the solenoid. Start positively ruling out items before trying to troubleshoot and entire system.

[coke]

Also, there is no purpose to wait for the GPs to cycle when you're priming the system. All its doing is wasting voltage. In fact, I would say until you get fuel at all 4 injectors, remove the glow plug fuse altogether. Its a drain that isn't even necessary on the system. And, your engine doesn't sound right to me when its cranking. Are you sure piston and valve cranking is dead on? Flywheel on TDC mark, cam lobes 1 and 2 pointing to 10 and 2, last two at 8 and 4, plate in place?

[the man 53]

I didn't look too close, but where did the pump come from? If it was PROTHE or any of his "other" websites you should probably just start shopping for a new pump now.

If it was from a reputible seller, then check all that the guys here have already suggested. You should be ok.