Oil Filters

[Kanzan]

My rebuilt 1.6na diesel has about 500 miles on it now. Went out today to get oil and filter. Had a hard time finding a dealer that has Bosch-Mann-Mahle filters. All his filters that fit the early VW 1.6na diesel had the same warning" Part Number: W0133-1638280
Notes: **10/18/04 VW/Audi has recommended the use of this filter for 1.8 liter 20V Turbo Engines 1996-on (AEB/ATW/AUG/AWM/AMB Engines Only).**
I ended up buying a CarQuest/Wix filter and Shell Rotella T 15w-40 oil. Why did VW put out a warning NOT to use any of these filters on the early diesels? Thanks, Kanzan

[82vdub]

Two thoughts that come to mind is the pressure that a cold diesel engine oil pressure system runs at; and particulate filtering size capability of the filter.

Both are assumptions on my part.

[dubdoc]

NEVER use anything but a Bosch or Mann (OEM) filter on a diesel. Cold oil pressures can run to 100 psi and will pod or blow lesser filters.

[rabbit_man]

I always use napa gold filters, works fine especially since the nearest dealer is 350 miles away.

[82vdub]

Ever since I've had my diesel (since about 1992), it's had pretty much Fram oil filters on it. It wouldn't surprise me if the filter bypass valve pops open when these things are fired up cold, but the car has 357k on the clock and it's the original shortblock, so Fram can't be too bad. I do have the aftermarket toilet paper Frantz oil and fuel filter setup's on the car though. I'm sure that's had something to do with a lot of that 357K.

[Dallas]

I run the Wix filter that fits Ford V8's etc. Part # 85515 at Carquest. After researching the specs in the Wix book, I decided to use that filter as the specs are virtually identical to the VW filter. It is also much more readily available than the VW filter. I have been using it for the last 5-6 years or longer and have no problems with 'blow ups' or swelling due to high 'start up' oil pressures. On my 69 Type III air cooled VW I had installed a remote oil filter kit which used the same filter. When using a Fram filter I 'blew' a couple of them off when starting up cold in the winters up here. Switched to a wix and had no problems after that. It does not get to cold here either. Only 30-40 F below zero at the coldest.

[Fatmobile]

Yep, one difference between the big block Ford filter and the VW diesel is the bypass pressure.
The Ford on opens at 10psi and dumps crap into your engine.

[hagar]

Kanzan : I have tested all kinds of filters , the winner hands down
? FRAM PH 3569 . want proof that they filter ? look at my
Blotter Tests.

now dubdoc and James Hansen are really smart , BUT ..... you blown one
FRAM you blown them all ? .

I offer good money for proof that anybody blew a 3569 with a standard Rabbit
. .


I would use Mahle if I coul get them , BUT Wal-Mart sells FRAM. so ?
we are happy. (ALL the Rabbits).

hagar.

[Ira B]

Can't speak to micron rating but as far as ability to take high pressures without puffing I think the heavy duty K&N filters are tops.
I run them on my Bug with full flow oil system and have actually shot a Fram 1/2 way across the yard on a cold morning with no problems with the K&N's.

[hagar]

Ira B are you in Washington state ? tell me number on the FRAM you blew and the year .


Automotive filters come in two main groups FULL flow and BY-PASS flow. VW use FULL flow. SO? well they cant work like a sieve .

They work by Electric attraction like a girlfriends nylon cling dress., that is why Nylon Panties are so difficult to get off. EH ?.

Where did I get that information ? none other than a handful of the worlds best "Tribology" people at Shell Oil and Exxon-Mobil and so on. The PH-3569 uses glass matting -------good dielectric property..

How are filters tested ? They told me that too. at great expense . Burst pressure of can and ability to grab particles of carbon and crud.. It is too complicated an issue for this post SO? do some googling .

A forum member tested all available filters and cut them open , IMHO he did a super job.

He was not kind to the old FRAM people. . I cut a PH-3569 open and it looks good.. .Why is it my number uno ? because price is involved and availability.

hagar..

[Ira B]

It was a Fram PH-8.

This is something I have seen happen on other guys Bugs too. (same filter)

Not knocking Fram filters in general but the pressure at the pump outlet on a Bug with a full flow system can jump over 200 psi on a cold morning start up.
The filter is usually mounted on a line close to the pump outlet and takes a direct pressure spike.
When most folks say "full flow" regarding Bugs they mean the case has been modded by tapping the case with oil fittings and an aftermarket pump cover with an outlet has been added. The oil is passed through a filter and then into the case, then go's on it's usual trip to the gallery.

[hagar]

Ira B are you in Washington state ?

The Beetle engine was designed by Dr.Porsche by order of the "Fuehrer" IMHO it is the finest car engine ever made in the world.

Them Krauts are super smart , Have I got hands on experience ? LOT's read my lips.

Jack is one ,by the way.. SO ? that is why the VW Rabbit diesel is Numero Uno in the world. , read my lips..

I was over there when the Volks Wagon was introduced I was in København , the war started and VW was making Kubel Wagons only. . Again the finest War Wagon ever , way better than the "Jeep" willys CJ- 5 ? I owned one and liked it.

dubdoc and hagar has a flying machine with Beetle Power, mine is CF-PGH ..

When it comes to COLD weather operation ? James Hansen is your man , read my frozen lips.

NO beetles did not have Oil filters , BUT some did have Oil Coolers..

hagar.

[vwtyp133]

C'mon, Ira B, I really like those Fram PH8A filters... use them exclusively... on the solvent tank of my parts washer! Other than that, IMO today they're only good as a 30-minute filter or 50-mile filter for the initial start-up & run-in of a new engine.

The WIX filter applications site http://www.wixfilters.com/filterlookup/index.asp has available fairly complete specs ["Part Detail"] for each of their filters listed. For early VAG diesels: Part Number: 51191; Media: Paper; Height: 5.178[inches]; Outer Diameter Top: 3.660; Thread Size: 3/4-16; By-Pass Valve Setting-PSI: 30; Anti-Drain Back Valve: Yes; Burst Pressure-PSI: 345; Max Flow Rate: 7-9 GPM; Nominal Micron Rating: 21.

OTOH their specs for the CarQuest #85515 / WIX #51515: Media: Paper/Glass; Height: 5.178[inches]; Outer Diameter: 3.660; Thread Size: 3/4-16; By-Pass Valve Setting-PSI: 8-11; Anti-Drain Back Valve: Yes; Burst Pressure-PSI: 290; Max Flow Rate: 7-9 GPM; Nominal Micron Rating: 21. Looks very similar to the recommended-for-VW #51191, except the By-Pass Valve Setting.


The WIX filter I've been using for many years is #51714: Media: Paper; Height: 6.605[inches]; Outer Diameter Top: 4.282; Thread Size: 3/4-16; By-Pass Valve Setting-PSI: 16; Anti-Drain Back Valve: Yes; Max Flow Rate: 7-9 GPM; Nominal Micron Rating: 32. It's the much larger canister size, adding to the lubrication system's total capacity, that attracted me, but I think the #51714's lower bypass valve setting, along with the nominal micron rating being much larger, has convinced me to return to the recommended-for-VAG #51191. Live & learn!

82vdub That "aftermarket toilet paper Frantz oil" filter should help keep your oil much cleaner. My early wrenching was in the same town where Mr. Frantz lived, so we saw & serviced plenty of those filters. They DO work well in keeping the engine oil much cleaner. Frantz's real particle filtration size: starts @ around 4-10 microns, and then after a couple hundred miles, drops to around 1-2 microns. Nice.

J.R.
SoCal

[Ira B]

Ira B are you in Washington state ?

The Beetle engine was designed by Dr.Porsche by order of the "Fuehrer" IMHO it is the finest car engine ever made in the world.

Them Krauts are super smart , Have I got hands on experience ? LOT's read my lips.

Jack is one ,by the way.. SO ? that is why the VW Rabbit diesel is Numero Uno in the world. , read my lips..

I was over there when the Volks Wagon was introduced I was in København , the war started and VW was making Kubel Wagons only. . Again the finest War Wagon ever , way better than the "Jeep" willys CJ- 5 ? I owned one and liked it.

dubdoc and hagar has a flying machine with Beetle Power, mine is CF-PGH ..

When it comes to COLD weather operation ? James Hansen is your man , read my frozen lips.

NO beetles did not have Oil filters , BUT some did have Oil Coolers..

hagar.

I am in Washington State on Whidbey Island.

The type 1 Vee Dub motor is an amazing example of a lasting design. They only went out of production a couple of years ago at the VW plant in Puebla Mexico.
On the flip side, they use a lot of gas for their displacement by modern standards and require a lot of TLC to keep them tuned and happy. Most people nowadays don't want to do valve adjustments every 3000 miles. And to stay OT, all but the last production runs lacked a real oil filter and had only a course screen in the sump for filtration.

[hagar]

Ira B : All my outlaws are around that area , how do you like this Summer ? EH ? wish I was down there..

A FRAM PH-3569 weigh in at 0.5 Kg. Diameter 3.6 Amerikan Inch Lenght a little over 5 Inches.

Does any of you have the weight of a Mahle ? for a 1.6 L VW Turbo ? .

The old FRAM for a Rabbit VW was PH - 3429A and slimmer
may have been intended for non Turbo only ? ..

hagar..

PS : the old battleax may be a 100 this fall , so you may meet the Ducling from Anacortes. Her name is Lucy Barmore..(the Ax that is).